Alternative German Fighters: Me-209, Me-309, He-100, etc.

• Mar 17, 2006

• Thread starter
• #301

CharlesBronson

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A interesting FW desing wich used the Jumo 222 24 cilinder engine.

The 2000 hp Jumo 222 was basically 3 geared V-8 engines in a radial layout.

 

• Mar 17, 2006

• #302

loomaluftwaffe

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an X engine which is mistaken for a radial when actually more of an inline...

 

• Mar 18, 2006

• #303

Henk

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Yes, I have it also as an inline engine in my Janes fighting aircraft of WW2.

Henk

 

• Mar 18, 2006

• #304

Twitch

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Like the W-12 auto engine- 3 banks of 4 cylinders. The key to radial/inline is air or liquid-cooled and this baby is liquid-cooled. Here we have 6 banks of 4 cylinders. 8)

 

• Mar 19, 2006

• Thread starter
• #305

CharlesBronson

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Well like I said 3 "LINEAL" V-8 engines geared to a single central shaft.

 

• Mar 20, 2006

• #306

K

KraziKanuK

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Twitch said:

Like the W-12 auto engine- 3 banks of 4 cylinders. The key to radial/inline is air or liquid-cooled and this baby is liquid-cooled. Here we have 6 banks of 4 cylinders. 8)

Click to expand...

If you are saying inlines are liquid cooled and radials are air cooled, not neccessarily true. The Ranger was a V inline that was air cooled. The Hs129 used an air cooled inline engine, the inverted V12 Argus. The Isotta-Franschini Delta RC35 was an air cooled inverted V12. Napier and RR made inline air cooled engines.

 

• Mar 20, 2006

• #307

Twitch

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Sure there are air-cooled inlines but no liquid-cooled radials. I mean when one speaks of a radial it is given that it is air-cooled. And for the most part inline= liquid cooled during combat operational engines in WW2. Is curious to ponder why more development wasn't put to air-cooled inliners though.

 

• Mar 20, 2006

• #308

K

KraziKanuK

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The XR-7755 was a liquid cooled radial.

 

• Mar 22, 2006

• #309

Twitch

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Yeah but how common was a liquid cooled radial in the context of everyday dialogue of WW2? If someone in 1943 said "the new fighter design calls for an 18-cyinder radial," and you replied "liquid cooled or air cooled?" they'd look at you as if you were a dummy. RELATIVE to the times of WW2 inline meant liquid-cooled and radial meant air-cooled.

What I'm curious about is why the lack of development in air-cooled inliners? I believe there is a point where you reach diminishing returns on HP vs ability to efficiently function and dissapate heat with weight factored in. I wish I knew the formula.

 

• Aug 21, 2006

• Thread starter
• #310

CharlesBronson

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Probably because the later cilinders close to the pilot receive a poor fresh air flow, aniway there was some desings in the 200-500 hp level like the Argus V-12 used in the FW-189 FW-56, Fi-156,etc.

Another "alternative" that wanst, the He-112B.

In Luftwaffe service in 1938.( briefly by the way)

 

• Aug 22, 2006

• #311

DerAdlerIstGelandet

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Got that same engined Ta-152 in a book of mine at home. Interesting version of the 152.

Got a question everyone.

Did any of the prototype Me-309s see any combat? I ask this because (you have to excuse me because I dont remember ths source) I saw on a website a log of claims from a 8th AF bomber squadron and one claims to have damaged a Me-309 and one claims to have killed one.

 

• Aug 22, 2006

• #312

Twitch

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I don't believe Me 209s saw combat. But...? I do know that there was some weird naming of different German planes by the 8th AF fighter pilots and Allied intel of the era. The 190D was referred to as the Fw 290 and something I never figured out was called the Me 209.

 

• Aug 22, 2006

• #313

Jaws

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Jul 21, 2006

The little game I play Forgotten Battles will soon release a new "1946" addon pack that will include quite a lot of this birds that flew only in the designer's dreams. Not something historical but a nice "What If".

Some info and screens here:

:: RRG STUDIOS ::

 

• Aug 23, 2006

• #314

DerAdlerIstGelandet

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Umm Jaws I hope you are not calling the Ta-183 just a designers dreams.

The first prototype of the Ta-183 was scheduled to be completed Oct 1945 but was not finished due the factory being captured in April 1945.

Other simmiler aircraft such as the Messerschmitt P.1011 were litterally only a week from first flight but were captured. The US ended up flying a modified version of the P.1011 after the war.

 

• Aug 23, 2006

• #315

Parmigiano

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There was at least a liquid cooled radial engine : the BMW803A, one of them is restored by BMW in Munich but I don't know if in display for the public:

4 rows, 28 cylinders, 84 litres (!) and 2,5 ton

source: forum.axishistory.com

 

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• Aug 23, 2006

• #316

Twitch

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One thing shown in the Ta 183 image that was the real deal and in the hands of the squadrons at the time of capitulation was the wire-guided X-4 missile. Any plane could carry them and they were the most deadly missile of the day.

About 15 minutes after VE-Day occurred they would have been in use.

 

• Aug 23, 2006

• #317

Twitch

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One this that was for real was in the Ta 183 image was the X-4 wire-guided missiles. Any plane could carry them and they were already in the squadrons' hands at the time of capitulation.

15 minutes after VE-Day they would have been in use.

What the hell. 1st post wouldn't load then did!

 

• Aug 23, 2006

• #318

Jaws

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Jul 21, 2006

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:

Umm Jaws I hope you are not calling the Ta-183 just a designers dreams.

The first prototype of the Ta-183 was scheduled to be completed Oct 1945 but was not finished due the factory being captured in April 1945.

Other simmiler aircraft such as the Messerschmitt P.1011 were litterally only a week from first flight but were captured. The US ended up flying a modified version of the P.1011 after the war.

Click to expand...

The designer's dream came to my mind from this thing:

 

• Aug 24, 2006

• #319

DerAdlerIstGelandet

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Yes that was a designers dream. I do believe they had a mock up built of that and were in the process of starting production of a prototype.

 

• Aug 24, 2006

• Thread starter
• #320

CharlesBronson

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More like a designers "demential delusion" than dream.