American Expeditionary Force - 1939/1940

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Here are the facts, from your own long list.
1 The Royal Navy began mining operations, before the Germans.
2 On May 5th the British Launched an invasion, before the Germans.
You've taken the DKM (German Navy Diaries) out of context. The diaries contain intelligence analysis of a speculative nature as to British intentions. The Germans expected to see their coastal trade routes attacked by the British Navy and RAF. They considered but did not rate highly a British invasion of Norway. In the end it came. British launched an Invasion near the critical port of Narvik.

Without Narvik Germany looses the war and that's why Britain attacked there. British troops actually landed. The German counter Invasion of Norway, to secure Narvik and the Norwegian coast from the British, required the invasion of Denmark to prevent a British attack on German supply lines. The German air forces, Army and Navy were still fully occupied in France and wouldn't be able to respond.

It's worth noting that during WW1 German submarine warfare against merchant ships on the high seas began due to British mining of neutral waterways in the baltic. If you are a sailor you are dead irrespective of weather hit by a torpedo or mine.

The British started first.
In reply to your claims. RN mining operations were in International waters and neutrals were informed as to their presence....so called "declared areas" German mining operations carried no such warnings and were undertaken partly within territorial waters of the neutrals. No warnings were issued as to the presence of these minefields. Neutral personnel lost their lives as a result of this activity. as far as I have been able to ascertain, no neutral shipping was lost in the allied laid minefield barrages laid in international waters.

following the discovery that the Germans were not observing the international rules of war with respect to their minelaying, the british did start to lay mines within the territorial waters of neutrals, but still not within the waters of Norway. they sent DDs to lay mines off the Dutch coast from December, and this did result in the loss of several dutch flagged ships, all of which were in the employ of the German govt.

The British decision to invade Narvik (and other ports) came 28 March 1940 (with preparations from 12 march) . by that stage, the germans had already decided upon an invasion of Norway, dating back to at least 3 October when Raeder wrote to Rosenberg. hitler approved in principal the invasion after his meeting with quisling in December, and the invasion was declared ready from late January. It was deferred until april because the germans were waiting for the best possible opportunity which the british handed them on the 3 april. by the time the british began to load ships onto their transports, there were already german troops in Norwegian ports, hidden aboard merchant shipping and just waiting for the order.

Britain planned to attack at a number of key point, not just Narvik. German troops had already invaded before allied troops were even loaded

This whole issue as to whether Germany had embarked on an aggressive war in its invasion of Norway, or whether it was legitimate for them to argue they were responding to overt British aggression was investigated and ruled upon in 1946 at Nuremberg

"Verdicts and findings Of the IMT tribunals in 1946 concerning Norway
The 1940 German invasion of Norway has been argued to be preemptive, with the German defense in the Nuremberg Trials. It was important to establish at these trials that germany had in fact embarked on an aggressive war, since this was a vital precursor leading to the indictments of the criminals that had led germany through the war. The defence argued much as we are witnessing here, that Germany was "compelled to attack Norway by the need to forestall an Allied invasion and that her action was therefore preemptive." The German defence was to attempt to refer to Plan R4 and its predecessors. However it was determined that Germany had discussed invasion plans as early as 3 October 1939 when in a memo from Admiral Raeder to Alfred Rosenberg Raeder discussed the "gaining bases in Norway." The memo had been prefaced by asking questions such as "Can bases be gained by military force against Norway's will, if it is impossible to carry this out without fighting?"

Norway was vital to Germany as a transport route for iron ore from Sweden, a supply that the United Kingdom was determined to stop. One British plan was to go through Norway and occupy cities in Sweden. An Allied invasion was ordered on 12 March, and the Germans intercepted radio traffic setting 14 March as deadline for the preparation. Peace in Finland interrupted the Allied plans. Two diary entries by jodl dated 13 and 14 March did not indicate any high level awareness of the Allied plan although they do show that Hitler was actively considering putting Operation Weserübung into operation: The first said "Fuehrer does not give order yet for 'Weser Exercise'. He is still looking for an excuse." and the second "Fuehrer has not yet decided what reason to give for Weser Exercise." It was not till 2 April 1940 that German preparations were completed (in the sense that all the assault groups were organized and loaded), and the Naval Operational Order for Weserübung was issued on 4 April 1940. The new Allied plans were Wilfred and Plan R 4. The plan was to intended provoke a German reaction by laying mines in Norwegian waters, and once Germany showed signs of taking action UK troops would occupy Narvik, Trondheim and Bergen and and launch a raid on Stavanger to destroy sola airbase. However "the mines were not laid until the morning of 8 April, by which time the German ships were advancing up the Norwegian coast." Further, it was established that large numbers of German troops were already in hiding aboard german ships anchored in Norwegian ports, a clear breach of Norwegian neutrality".

The International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg determined that German aggressive intent was already in place and being acted upon well before it was known that an Allied invasion was imminent. German plans were made, regardless of allied intent, and that allied responses were essentially defensive or in anticipation of German overt aggressive moves. The tribunal therefore rejected the German argument that Germany was entitled to attack Norway.It formeed part of the successful indictement made against germany that she had knowingly and actively engaged in an aggressive war against nations with no justification.

Your argument was attempted and failed 71 years ago. I know, you think you know better than the IMT, and the IMT was a kangaroo court whereas your motives are more pure than the driven snow, but you will pardon me if I say you are just peddling crap that we have seen oh so many times before....
 
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Mr. Koopernic, you make some very remarkable statements here. Being Dutch, I'll focus on my own specialty for now:
As far as Holland goes. It was an unpopular invasion with Germans as Holland had been neutral and benign with Germans in WW1. The German ambassador was in tears over the injustice of it towards a friendly people. However Holland's ruling elite had their own ideas. RAF aircraft were overflying Holland and being let fly with a token response while similar Luftwaffe incursions were met with force. Despite haughty British propaganda it seemed likely they would have another "Wilfred" on Holland and Holland would be a beachhead for Britain. Churchill was openly calling on Holland to side against Germany, which didn't help neutrality any.
This is a bold statement. I've been studying the politics in my country of the time leading up to WW2 quite well and probably have more resources than you do as most are not translated into English. Your claim that British aircraft were favoured over the German doesn't hold if you know anything. The only foreign aircraft shot down by the ML in the period between September 1939 and May 1940 was a British Whitley. I could give you the list of sorties and interceptions of that time period as well if you like , just to show you how misinformed you are. The Dutch were very neutral, although they knew where the danger would come from, having an aggressive neighbour in the east. The 'dutch ruling elite' had no other ideas, apart from defending themselves.

Belgium was exploited as France's buffer state, France hid behind Belgium.
So did Germany, so your point? Fact is, the invasion of Holland and Belgium were uncalled for. They might have been a strategic important for the Germans, but with the countries being neutral and strictly following the rules for neutrality, the invasion of these countries were a criminal act.
 
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The United States declares war along with everyone else in September. What aircraft would they send for their air component if they had to have something there for the spring?

Douglas B-18 bombers?
Douglas O-46 army-coop?
Northrop A-17 attack planes?
Seversky P-35 fighters?
Not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but the Brewster Buffalo was already in service with the USN at this time....and it should be the F2A-1 / B-239, which I think was the best of the whole bunch of Buffalo fighters.

Elvis
 
It was touched on in post #36.

Yes it was in service, in truly minuscule numbers in the fall of 1939.
HOWEVER
The USN had ordered 54 on June 11th 1938.
On July 29th 1938 Brewster purchases the old Pierce-Arrow auto factory (four stories with central elevator) in Queens NY.
On March 22 '39 the Navy orders the conversion of the XF2A-1 prototype to XF2A-2 standard.
June 1939 sees first production F2A-1 delivered.
Aug 1939 sees British Purchasing Commission prepare a contract for 120 Model 339s, comparable to the F2A-2
Aug also sees Poland order 250 F2A type fighters

A good start but.........
Dec 1939 sees the 11th F2A-1 accepted by the USN and they go into service aboard the Saratoga with VF-3.
The other 43/44 aircraft from the initial order are released to Finland and 17 are built in Jan 1940 and the last 27 are built in Feb 1940.
Dec also sees Belgium order 40 aircraft and the British actually sign the order for 120 120 339Es.
Production of the Belgian 339B starts in April of 1940 and the first 33B is delivered in May. France takes over the Belgian order. May also sees Brewster lease a 217,000 sq ft hanger in Newark NJ for extra plant space.

June sees Brewster take over an eight story Ford plant of 482,000 sq ft almost across the street from original plant in Queens.
Production of 339Es for england are 2 in May, 22 in June and 9 in July, Belgian aircraft are mixed in and would raise numbers. Production is stopped to convert to F2A-2 production for USN. USN gets 6 in Sept 1940, 26 in Oct, and 10 in Nov, one is built in Jan. Nov/Dec sees production restart for England. with 40 built in Dec and 38 in Jan.

jan 1941 sees the USN order 108 F2A-3s as Grumman cannot make F4Fs fast enough.

and so on.

Brewster simply cannot supply any reasonable quantity of aircraft in late 1939 or early/mid 1940. Not to mention than neither the F2A-1 or F2A-2 were really suitable for combating 109Es , however well they did against Russian I-15s and I-16s.

Maybe prewar (1939) American pilots were better than French/British pilots of the time, maybe not.

I would note that the Early Buffaloes used an engine rated at 950hp for take-off and 750-800hp at 15-16,000ft.
 
There is no way the Americans could field a significant air power arm at the time, however IMHO there were enough available to help augment the Allies and could have made a difference. Event though US only had 23 B-17s, it was still 23 more 4 engine bomber heavy bombers than the British could field, and were also more modern than what the French had.

While not all the aircraft the US had were modern, every nation involved in the war in 1939 were also fielding similar aircraft.

In regards to the US taking over foreign aircraft in 1939, they did just that when they finally entered the war.

I still see the Navy's Vought SB2U Vindicator being a better choice than the A-17, but heck take them both. I'm pretty sure the Germans did not only use their dive bombers for bridges and I do not recall the Japanese losing bridges to dive bombers during Midway.

I will state that the Finns flew the Buffalo against Russian Hurricanes, Migs, Yaks, and IL-2s and were shooting them down. Yes they were outdated, but still could be a lethal weapon in capable hands.
 
Part of the problem with an "expeditionary" force at the time is that it strips the US of air defenses. It also delays training of any units left in the US.
And some of the planes just weren't very good.

Sending 23 or 20 or 15 early B-17s to Europe really doesn't get you much. The B-17B was rated at a max bomb load of eight 600lb bombs, which is a non-standard size for the British or French. It also means max load wasn't a whole lot better than the Wellington or Whitley.
defensive armament was FIVE .30 cal guns in hand aimed mounts. Armament was later beefed up by putting single .50 cal guns in most positions. Max gross weight was 46,178 pounds which compares to the 55,000lbs normal and 72,000lbs max gross of a B-17G.

You are NOT getting B-17Es or Fs 3 years early.

One problem with the Vindicator as built was a single bomb crutch. One 500 or 1000lb bomb. great for a point target, not so good for column or area target. Most also had a single forward firing machinegun. the last 56 built got a single .50 cal, the rest had a single .30cal.
Ju-87s could carry four 50 kg bombs under the wing in addition to the main bomb. Ju-87s also had two forward firing machineguns.

Now you also need forward air observers with radios serving with (in-bedded) the ground troops to call in the air attacks like the Germans did.
A-17 had four .30 cal guns for strafing and multiple small bombs.

US Expeditionary Force, if Deployed to France is going to see very little anti-ship action so the capabilities of the Vindicator against ships is rather moot.
 
I suspect the most likely scenario for an American Expeditionary Force in 1940 would be in the form of a modest, personnel-only commitment of, maybe, a couple of squadrons-worth. Others have pointed out the lack of operationally viable aircraft in the US operational inventory in 1940, but the simple logistics of integrating American equipment into the arsenal in 1940 was just too complex to be done quickly. IMHO, a far more viable approach would be the early implementation of a 1940-style Lafayette Escadrille or RAF Eagle Squadron construct.
 
Shortround6,

Thanks for that scathing report ( ;) )
I've heard plenty about Brewster's inability to produce in adequate numbers.
I wonder if they wouldn't have better served themselves as strictly a design firm and let others worry about manufacturing.



Elvis
 
Shortround6,

Thanks for that scathing report ( ;) )
I've heard plenty about Brewster's inability to produce in adequate numbers.
I wonder if they wouldn't have better served themselves as strictly a design firm and let others worry about manufacturing.



Elvis
The problem in 1939-40 was who to turn the manufacturing over to?
Grumman had more than they could handle as it was.
Bell had built under two dozen planes before Sept 1939.
Seversky/Republic had built under 100.
The Use of Car manufacturers as management teams was still 1-2 years in the future plus the equipping of factories and the hiring/training of tens of thousands of workers.

Brewster may have fallen down on the last parts, and eight story car factory as an aircraft plant?
Modern picture of old Brewster factory
220px-Brewster_Building_from_Queensboro_Plaza_Platform.jpg
 
It must be said that Brewster took production difficulties to a whole new level (the only American aircraft manufacturer to actually go bankrupt during WW2) but it must be remembered that orders for military aircraft in the US prior to 1940 were pretty parsimonious. Take the Northrop A-17/Douglas 8A as an example. Of 411 built, the USAAC received 242 which is barely enough to sustain 10 squadrons on operations. The initial orders for the Brewster F2A were similarly small, and while we can factor in some well-founded doubt in US Naval minds that Brewster could actually deliver, we must also remember that US Navy orders for other aircraft in the late 1930s were in the few hundreds only. To reinforce my point, the USN only received 169 Vindicators.

Bottom line is that the Arsenal of Democracy with which we're all familiar largely happened because European powers (after mid-1940, Britain alone), paid for much larger production runs at a time when the US military didn't need such quantities of aircraft. When America did enter the war, and the massive military expansion really got into gear, the nation was blessed to have a robust aircraft production capacity already extant, courtesy of those foreign orders in 1939-41.

All this means that the US couldn't unilaterally generate much of a force for any kind of European expedition in 1940, hence my suggestion that a personnel-only deployment would be the most likely course of action. Even that would have to be limited because of the need to train newly drafted personnel that would be needed in the near future.
 
I would also note that of the 411 Northrops the first 110 had fixed landing gear
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and of the other "American" ones, 93 were sold to the French, refurbished at the factory (with new engines) and delivered to the British after France fell and a number were sent to South Africa to be used as trainers and 32 went to Canada for pretty much the same duty.
The 411 total may include 94 built in Sweden under licence and totally not available for an American adventure in Europe.
The fixed gear version could barely top 200mph
This plane was roughly the size of a Ju-87 but used a 750-825 hp engine in most versions.
 
There is no way the Americans could field a significant air power arm at the time, however IMHO there were enough available to help augment the Allies and could have made a difference. Event though US only had 23 B-17s, it was still 23 more 4 engine bomber heavy bombers than the British could field, and were also more modern than what the French had.
This is correct in theory but the B17 of 1940 was far from combat worthy and would have achieved little if anything. Its interesting that when the UK started to use the B17 the USAAF were urging them not to as they were not ready for combat and that was much later
While not all the aircraft the US had were modern, every nation involved in the war in 1939 were also fielding similar aircraft.
I have to differ the US at the time had obsolete aircraft the Hurricane was far better than anything the US had let alone the Spitfires and 109E's which were in full production and service in 1940. The German bombers and Blenheim, Wellington even the Hampden were all better than the USA in 1940
In regards to the US taking over foreign aircraft in 1939, they did just that when they finally entered the war.
Its interesting to think of the situation if the USA hadn't received those orders in particular the Curtiss company which was only kept afloat by overseas orders
 
I know there's the old saw that the Yanks were "late" getting into the war, but I think when you really dig into it, aside from the USN (which pains me to say), the US was about as unprepared in 1939 as it was in 1917, maybe not quite as bad, but pretty close. The extra two and a half years or so were desperately needed it would seem, for the US to ramp up, not just aircraft production but pretty much everything, tanks guns, even Essex class carriers.
 
I disagree about the B-17, at the time the US had 23, a mixture of YB-17 and B-17Bs. According to American Combat Planes of the 20th Century by Ray Wagner, the YB-17 had a max bomb load of 10,400 lbs (page 231), the B-17B could carry 8,000 lbs half of which were carried on external racks.. Even though they only sported 5 x .30 that was heavier or equal to what a lot of the bombers were using at the time. American crews were already experienced in the use the Norden bombsights with pretty good results and had been so since the mid 30's when they were being used on Keystone B-6s and Martin B-10/B-12s . Again the US would not be facing the Axis on their own. The B-17s were far from perfect, but I would be wiling to put them against any other heavy or medium bomber in service at that time. The Germans only had 12 Ju-88s to use in the invasion of Poland, but they still used them and why would you not use an asset?

I believe we are also being too quick to write off the Curtiss P-36 as a fighter. IIRC in the Hawk 75 guise it accounted for 1/3 of the kills France achieved including BF-109s & He-111s. They also made a good showing against Japanese and French aircraft in the CBO theatre.

There is no doubt Brewester was not a well run aircraft company, but that does not change the fact their Model 239 Buffalo in capable hands could be a lethal weapon. Finnish pilots got over 400 kills flying them and those kills included lend-lease Hurricanes, MIG-3s, YAKS and Tupolev SB bombers.

I would also point out the French order of Vindicator dive bombers the British took over when France fell were retrofitted with 4 x .303 machine guns in the wings but again I would not replace the A-18's but augment them with the Vindicators.

Again, it's not a US Force vs the Axis on their own. If the force is better served flying against the Italians then it frees up British and French resources to face the Germans.
 
While foreign investment did a lot for the aircraft industry the US Navy was being expanded considerably (or planned to be modernized) before WW II (Sept 39) the Army had spent a fair amount on R&D and needed to lace orders for heavy weapons. However this all takes time. US rearmament pretty much started in 1939 which makes it 3-4 years late compared to Britain and even longer compared to France.

For US Battleships the North Carolina was laid down in 1937 and the Washington in 1938. Granted these may be considered as replacements for Pre WW I ships. However 3 of the 4 South Dakotas were laid down in 1939, the 4th and two of the Iowas were laid down in 1940, and two more in Jan of 1941.
The US had been building large numbers of cruisers during the late 20s and early 30s, due in part, to the fact they had very few WW I left overs. 4 Atalanta's and 4 Cleveland's were laid down in 1940, 9 more Cleveland's were laid down in 1941 as were 4 Baltimore's.
Between 1934 and the end of 1939 the US launched (not laid or completed) 68 Destroyers. And so on. very late 30s.

Now in the 1930s the Navy, and rightly so, was considered the first line of defense for the US. A strong Navy could keep an enemy from even getting to the US shore. Aircraft were not a factor until the very late 30s. Please remember the XB-15 and the XB-19. The US probably had as good an idea as anybody what it would take to build really long range bombers.

You could design a tank, build prototypes, design the factory for it, build the factory on a bare plot of ground and start building production tanks in the time it took to build a battleship.

You can't build tanks in car factories but you can sure build them in railroad locomotive/rail car shops and the US was a world leader in that type of industry.
If you can build these
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The building tanks isn't that big a stretch.
yes the US did build special factories for tanks but the Army had made plans for tank production by railroad "shops" until such time as the special factories could be completed.
 
I disagree about the B-17, at the time the US had 23, a mixture of YB-17 and B-17Bs. According to American Combat Planes of the 20th Century by Ray Wagner, the YB-17 had a max bomb load of 10,400 lbs (page 231), the B-17B could carry 8,000 lbs half of which were carried on external racks.. Even though they only sported 5 x .30 that was heavier or equal to what a lot of the bombers were using at the time. American crews were already experienced in the use the Norden bombsights with pretty good results and had been so since the mid 30's when they were being used on Keystone B-6s and Martin B-10/B-12s . Again the US would not be facing the Axis on their own. The B-17s were far from perfect, but I would be wiling to put them against any other heavy or medium bomber in service at that time. The Germans only had 12 Ju-88s to use in the invasion of Poland, but they still used them and why would you not use an asset?

OK here is the specs for the B-17B.
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/B-17/B-17B-Characteristics_Performance_Summary.pdf

Please note that it is for a gross weight of 37,997lbs and that covers the 10,345lb useful load. That covers the fuel, a whopping 850 gallons, and bombs, again a not so impressive 2573lbs. Crew is only 6 men.

Now on the 2nd page it gives a range of 2190 miles at 250mph at 25,000ft. with that 2573lb bomb load, however it used 1700 gallons of fuel for that "optimum range" which would put the gross take-off weight to over 43,000lbs. BTW filling the fuel tanks to capacity and carrying zero bombs puts the gross weight to over 50,000lbs.
Obviously flying thousands of pounds over weight would cut into the performance. Please note that these are NOT the engines of the later B-17s and are rated at 1000hp for take-off and 850hp for climb and not 1200hp for take-off and 1000hp for climb of the B-17E.

as for defensive armament, crap is crap, the B-17B had about the same defensive armament as a He 111 at the end of the daylight Battle of Britain, being the equal of plane that was shot down in large numbers is hardly the mark of being adequate.

The Germans used a lot of prototypes, small production runs. easy to do when the front line is only a few hundred miles from the factory.
It is about 4800 miles by air from Seattle (Boeing factory) to London (great circle route) , by train and boat who knows???? trying to support a small group of aircraft so far from logistical support?

I believe we are also being too quick to write off the Curtiss P-36 as a fighter. IIRC in the Hawk 75 guise it accounted for 1/3 of the kills France achieved including BF-109s & He-111s. They also made a good showing against Japanese and French aircraft in the CBO theatre.

It is not a question of writing off it's qualities so much (although things changed) as the numbers available. The US got about 210 total. To cover the Hawaiian Islands, the Philippines, the US East and West Coasts and so on. The US P-36s as built, were also deficient in armament. The last 30 built getting more powerful engines and a MG in each wing for a 4 gun total. The French got about 147 with 4 guns and the rest with 6 guns. The French also had 3 different versions of the R-1830 in service (the Wright R-1820 model didn't get there in time)


I would also point out the French order of Vindicator dive bombers the British took over when France fell were retrofitted with 4 x .303 machine guns in the wings but again I would not replace the A-18's but augment them with the Vindicators.

Again, it's not a US Force vs the Axis on their own. If the force is better served flying against the Italians then it frees up British and French resources to face the Germans.

For the Vindicators you are correct, however they were under-powered to point of not being able to operate from small carriers with a reasonable bombload and were replaced by Swordfish. Granted when operating from land you should have longer runways.

There are reasons the British shuffled most of these early American planes in their possession off to training squadrons (usually far from Britain) or operational squadrons also far, far removed from Europe.

You are quite correct. it is NOT the US vs the Axis on their own, and the plain fact is that the US aircraft of late 1939 simply don't bring much to the situation, either in capability or numbers, to alter the situation the British and French found themselves in in May/June of 1940. Italy didn't declare war until June 10th, 1940 a full month after the attack on France began so shuffling the American expeditionary force off to watch the Italians before then is an admission they can't cut it in NW Europe at the time. Sending them to North Africa after takes a lot shipping space.
 
The problem in 1939-40 was who to turn the manufacturing over to?
...Boeing, Consolidated, Douglas, Curtiss, Ryan, Republic, Fairchild.....see what I'm getting at.
There were plenty of established aircraft manufacturers around to do the nut-and-bolt work. They could've just leased their designs, while building what they could themselves....like what actually happened later, during the war, with the auto manufacturers.
Interesting that the old Brewster factory is now the headquarters of Jet Blue.
 
I disagree about the B-17, at the time the US had 23, a mixture of YB-17 and B-17Bs. According to American Combat Planes of the 20th Century by Ray Wagner, the YB-17 had a max bomb load of 10,400 lbs (page 231), the B-17B could carry 8,000 lbs half of which were carried on external racks.. Even though they only sported 5 x .30 that was heavier or equal to what a lot of the bombers were using at the time. American crews were already experienced in the use the Norden bombsights with pretty good results and had been so since the mid 30's when they were being used on Keystone B-6s and Martin B-10/B-12s . Again the US would not be facing the Axis on their own. The B-17s were far from perfect, but I would be wiling to put them against any other heavy or medium bomber in service at that time. The Germans only had 12 Ju-88s to use in the invasion of Poland, but they still used them and why would you not use an asset?.
It isn't just the book numbers that should be cnsidered but the actual operating difficulties that were encountered. In May 1941 comfortably after 1939/40 the RAF started to prepare to use the B17 and the problems were considerable.

On the first mission the guns froze as did the astrodome and 25% of the bombs hung up. There were structural failures of the wing when sever turbulance was encountered.
Bombing accuracy was poor so poor in fact that a brave Mr Vose of the Sperry Company, went on active missions as the bomb aimer and there was no improvement. There were also problems with the oxygen equipment

The one thing that did stand the test was the ability to take damage from fighters.

PS - It was during a demonstration to Churchill on 6th June 1941, that the USAAF representatives led by General Royce, urged caution when they heard that the RAF were actually planning to use the B17 in action
 
...Boeing, Consolidated, Douglas, Curtiss, Ryan, Republic, Fairchild.....see what I'm getting at.
There were plenty of established aircraft manufacturers around to do the nut-and-bolt work.

Actually there weren't.

Yes Boeing was short of work and subcontracted A-20s from Douglas but then that rather lets out Douglas, they have their hands full.
Curtiss also has their hands full, and is expanding the Buffalo NY plant to handle the Hawk 75 foreign orders and the 524 P-40s ordered in April 1939. They have plant in St Lewis but that might be busy?
Ryan was building pretty much the STA trainer series and until 1940 they built an average of one plane very two weeks (1937 excepted at 46 planes for the year)
7f2bbb2a80fbc182ea5839e903e488ad--ryan-oneal-pilots.jpg

in 1940 they got to 3 planes per week.
Republic was Seversky until 1939 and they had problems delivering P-35s.

Fairchild was building a fair number of 24s before branching out to the PT-19/23/26 series.
690inflight.jpg

But these aircraft used a lot of wood in their construction. Factory as it existed in 1939/40 might not be suited to building all metal fighter planes.

As the war went on many of these manufacturers built or expanded existing plants and many started subcontracting work from the really big manufacturers which eased them into all metal construction or the abilty to design and build such things as the C-82 flying box car. But that capability didn't exist in 1939/40. Ryan for example averaged around 100 employees in the late 30s. Bell and Curtiss wound up with well over 10,000 employees each by 1942.
 
Well according to Wiki, Seversky changed to Republic in September of '39, which was the beginning of the war, so I still think Brewster would've been hocking their Buffalo fighter to Republic, not Seversky.
...anyway, on with the rest of the discussion....
So you're saying Brewster was just stuck because everyone else was too busy?
...and yet, when the Federal Government tells you build those planes and get them over to the war zone!, isn't it funny how everyone suddenly finds the time to get the planes built, even if a single design has to come from multiple manufacturers in order to get it out.
Like I stated before, there were plenty of other manufacturers out there who were better setup, production-wise, to get large numbers of planes out, than Brewster.
 
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