American Mossies?
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Haztoys
Senior Airman
I "think" they did in a photo recon sort of way...
I remember a photo of a blue/green USA Mossies...
I remember a photo of a blue/green USA Mossies...
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
I've discovered they were Canadian made this a pic of an F8 Mosquito no334926 originally B.VII KB315 the 3rd transferred to USAAF later to become "Spook" the following link has more
Mosquito Aircraft Production at Downsview
Mosquito Aircraft Production at Downsview
Attachments
Erich
the old Sage
well you did have RAF Mossie NF's fly under the USA colors in at least 2 US NF squads in the MTO. Brick should come on here and add his two centos to the thread.........he's got the straight ups on this
evangilder
"Shooter"
Downwind.Maddl-Land
Airman 1st Class
The red (or sometimes red-striped) tails and spinners were to try to stop mis-idents with Me-410s, btw.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Doesn't look near as elegant without the British roundels. Sorry.
Downwind.Maddl-Land
Airman 1st Class
A bit harsh, don't you think? Possibly an element of 'not what one's used to' edging in?
How come you guys' got Mk XVIs anyway? Should have slid you the unpressurised ( unloved) Mk IXs!
- Thread starter
- #10
JSETCHELL
Recruit
Hi. I just stumbled across this site, thought I would look in to see what was going on, and noted the chat going on about the American Mossies, to include the following comment from pbfoot "...I've discovered they were Canadian made this a pic of an F8 Mosquito no334926 originally B.VII KB315 the 3rd transferred to USAAF later to become "Spook".
The Mosquito in the foto (#43-34926) is indeed the Spook, which was a foto-recce version built by De Havilland at their Downsview Plant near Toronto and operated by the USAAF as the F-8. The Spook was flown by my father...who is the officer standing in front of the aircraft in that picture. That foto was taken at Wright Field in Jul 1943.
Martin W. Bowman covers these aircraft in Chapter 6 of his book "The Men Who Flew the Mosquito."
The Mosquito in the foto (#43-34926) is indeed the Spook, which was a foto-recce version built by De Havilland at their Downsview Plant near Toronto and operated by the USAAF as the F-8. The Spook was flown by my father...who is the officer standing in front of the aircraft in that picture. That foto was taken at Wright Field in Jul 1943.
Martin W. Bowman covers these aircraft in Chapter 6 of his book "The Men Who Flew the Mosquito."
Catch22
Major
Wow, what a coincidence!
JSETCHELL
Recruit
Yes, how about that? I should have stated that the Spook came from the DH plant in Downsview, near Toronto, not Ottawa..I will fix that shortly.
That foto posted by pbfoot showed up in a local Wright Field base paper, which had been placed in one of our family's scrapbooks (hence my instant recognition!). Assuming I can figure out how to attach a photo to this note, here is another shot of the Spook. This was taken at Prestwick Field, Scotland, while my Dad and his nav, Jerome (Alex) Alexander, were flying the Spook to La Marsa, Tunisia. This foto was taken sometime between 6 and 15 Oct 1943:
That foto posted by pbfoot showed up in a local Wright Field base paper, which had been placed in one of our family's scrapbooks (hence my instant recognition!). Assuming I can figure out how to attach a photo to this note, here is another shot of the Spook. This was taken at Prestwick Field, Scotland, while my Dad and his nav, Jerome (Alex) Alexander, were flying the Spook to La Marsa, Tunisia. This foto was taken sometime between 6 and 15 Oct 1943:
Glider
Captain
This link may be of interest.
[2.0] Mosquito In Service / Foreign Users
The following is a quote from the site, I changed a few words at the start but the full story is on the site. I think we can say that the US liked them.
In late 1942, a B.IV Mosquito was given to Colonel Elliot Roosevelt, the American President's son and commander of a USAAF reconnaissance squadron in North Africa, equipped with Lockheed F-4 Lightning reconnaissance aircraft. The B.IV was faster and had much longer range than the Lockheeds, and Elliot Roosevelt began to press for adopting the British machine.
In the meantime, Mosquitos were finally beginning to roll off the production lines at de Havilland Canada in the Toronto area, and in December 1942 Geoffrey de Havilland JR brought one of the first Canadian Mosquitos down to Washington DC. Hap Arnold ordered that airport traffic be held off for a half hour to allow de Havilland to put on an aerial demonstration over the city. Geoffrey De Havilland then left for California to perform more demonstrations. He went by train in order to see the country, and the Mosquito went separately. In Los Angeles he met with his cousin, actress Olivia de Havilland.
Hap Arnold now became very determined to get his hands on the Mossie, beginning with a offer to swap P-51 Mustangs for Mosquitos. The British turned him down. The Mosquito was increasingly seen as difficult to replace. Had Canada been producing Mosquitos in volume at the time, the Americans might have been able to get their hands on part of the production, but the Canadians were slow to ramp up, with only 90 Mosquitos built there in 1943. At least Arnold's persistent lobbying to get Mosquitos helped convince Bomber Command that they had something of value.
The Americans did manage to get their hands on a relatively small batch of Canadian aircraft. The US signed an agreement with the British government in October 1943 for 120 Canadian-built Mosquito bombers, but limited production meant that the US only got 5 B.VIIs and 35 B.XXs. They were converted to a reconnaissance configuration with US-built cameras, redesignated "F.8", and sent to the UK for service with the USAAF Eighth Air Force.
The F.8's camera suite was minimal and the single-stage Merlins really didn't provide the performance the USAAF wanted, and so the F.8s were eventually replaced by PR.XVIs. The Americans obtained over a hundred PR.XVIs, along with a handful of T.IIIs for conversion or continuance training.
American pilots converting from their Lockheed F-4 and F-5 Lightnings, which had "handed" propellers, had to be trained to deal with the Mosquito's tendency to roll against the rotation of its propellers on takeoff. There was a worse problem in that over-anxious fighter pilots tended to mistake Mosquitos for Messerschmitt Me-410s, which in fact did have a similar configuration, and so the USAAF gave their PR.XVIs red-painted tails as a recognition aid.
The majority of the Yank PR.XVIs were used in their intended photoreconnaissance role, but a good number of them were used for weather reconnaissance, and they were also modified for special tasks. Some were fitted with US-built "H2X" targeting radar, the American three-centimeter counterpart to the British ten-centimeter H2S, mounted in the nose radome. As American crews referred to H2X as "Mickey" for some forgotten reason, these were known as "Mickey Ships". Some USAAF Mosquitos were fitted out for dispensing chaff, and seven were fitted with communications gear to support Allied agents and resistance forces in Occupied Europe.
USAAF Mosquitos were also fitted to use the LORAN navigation system, the American answer to Gee, and as LORAN was something of an Allied standard later in the war it is plausible that some RAF Mosquitos had LORAN receivers as well.
[2.0] Mosquito In Service / Foreign Users
The following is a quote from the site, I changed a few words at the start but the full story is on the site. I think we can say that the US liked them.
In late 1942, a B.IV Mosquito was given to Colonel Elliot Roosevelt, the American President's son and commander of a USAAF reconnaissance squadron in North Africa, equipped with Lockheed F-4 Lightning reconnaissance aircraft. The B.IV was faster and had much longer range than the Lockheeds, and Elliot Roosevelt began to press for adopting the British machine.
In the meantime, Mosquitos were finally beginning to roll off the production lines at de Havilland Canada in the Toronto area, and in December 1942 Geoffrey de Havilland JR brought one of the first Canadian Mosquitos down to Washington DC. Hap Arnold ordered that airport traffic be held off for a half hour to allow de Havilland to put on an aerial demonstration over the city. Geoffrey De Havilland then left for California to perform more demonstrations. He went by train in order to see the country, and the Mosquito went separately. In Los Angeles he met with his cousin, actress Olivia de Havilland.
Hap Arnold now became very determined to get his hands on the Mossie, beginning with a offer to swap P-51 Mustangs for Mosquitos. The British turned him down. The Mosquito was increasingly seen as difficult to replace. Had Canada been producing Mosquitos in volume at the time, the Americans might have been able to get their hands on part of the production, but the Canadians were slow to ramp up, with only 90 Mosquitos built there in 1943. At least Arnold's persistent lobbying to get Mosquitos helped convince Bomber Command that they had something of value.
The Americans did manage to get their hands on a relatively small batch of Canadian aircraft. The US signed an agreement with the British government in October 1943 for 120 Canadian-built Mosquito bombers, but limited production meant that the US only got 5 B.VIIs and 35 B.XXs. They were converted to a reconnaissance configuration with US-built cameras, redesignated "F.8", and sent to the UK for service with the USAAF Eighth Air Force.
The F.8's camera suite was minimal and the single-stage Merlins really didn't provide the performance the USAAF wanted, and so the F.8s were eventually replaced by PR.XVIs. The Americans obtained over a hundred PR.XVIs, along with a handful of T.IIIs for conversion or continuance training.
American pilots converting from their Lockheed F-4 and F-5 Lightnings, which had "handed" propellers, had to be trained to deal with the Mosquito's tendency to roll against the rotation of its propellers on takeoff. There was a worse problem in that over-anxious fighter pilots tended to mistake Mosquitos for Messerschmitt Me-410s, which in fact did have a similar configuration, and so the USAAF gave their PR.XVIs red-painted tails as a recognition aid.
The majority of the Yank PR.XVIs were used in their intended photoreconnaissance role, but a good number of them were used for weather reconnaissance, and they were also modified for special tasks. Some were fitted with US-built "H2X" targeting radar, the American three-centimeter counterpart to the British ten-centimeter H2S, mounted in the nose radome. As American crews referred to H2X as "Mickey" for some forgotten reason, these were known as "Mickey Ships". Some USAAF Mosquitos were fitted out for dispensing chaff, and seven were fitted with communications gear to support Allied agents and resistance forces in Occupied Europe.
USAAF Mosquitos were also fitted to use the LORAN navigation system, the American answer to Gee, and as LORAN was something of an Allied standard later in the war it is plausible that some RAF Mosquitos had LORAN receivers as well.
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
Out of curiosity why would the Brits decide what to do with canadian aircraft . As for rampimg up production slowly here is a little clip from Toronto Aerospace Museum
The first 25 aircraft were B. VIIs from 1942 and 1943 and were essentially hand built under difficult circumstances. The parent company in England could spare very little help at the time. Drawings and parts were lost at sea, and the pattern aircraft was dropped on the dock at Halifax and badly damaged. Nevertheless, the first prototype was airborne within a year.
Glider
Captain
I don't know the awnser as to why the US had to come to an agreement with the UK but as a guess the contract had already been signed with the UK.
Had to smile about the pattern aircraft, there wasn't much else that could have gone wrong.
Had to smile about the pattern aircraft, there wasn't much else that could have gone wrong.
