An Me-262 In Japan

[Twitch]

Thanks Adler, Marseille was the greatest shooter of them all round for round!

Disassembled 262s did reach Japan via U-boat or I-boat. The huge Japanese cargo subs went to Germany too. Whether the 262 had Jumo engines is unknown. Most certainly the Japanese received the BMW units. Of this I am sure. The Me 163 was cloned as the J8M Shusui from Japanese engineers using its technical manual only.

BTW that plane in the picture is a Me 262B not an A-1 as stated on the other website.

 

[me262]

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[Twitch]

Ya know how U-234 was on the way when the war ended? Here's what she had on board. Cargo containers were built to fit in the original mine shafts forward, midships and astern. Four cargo containers were carried topside. 240 tons of cargo were loaded for departure March 25,1945. Cargo included three crated Messershmitt Me-262 jet fighters and an ME-163 rocket-propelled fighter, Henschel HS-293 glider-bomb, extra Junkers jet engines, 10 canisters of uranium oxide, a ton of diplomatic mail, and over 3 tons of technical drawings, plus other technology (torpedo, fuses, armor piercing shells, etc.) Passengers were 9 high technical officers (one general) and civilian scientists. U-859 sunk in 1944 was carrying uranium.

U-129 and U-195 had delivered 12 V-2s and an Me 262 to Japan in 1944.
The U-195, a Type IXD, and the U-219, type VII, delivered their cargo to Jakarta 12/44. The U-219 was turned over to the Imperial Navy to become the I.505. The U-195 became the I.506. There were something like 98 known attempts or successful voyages to Japan so we can only imaging what other goodies were sent. Other U-boats were turned over to the IJN after successful voyages to become I-boats.

See:
Lenton, H.T.
German Submarines Vols. 1 2
Macdonald Co., London, 1965

Green, William
Jet Aircraft of the World
Macdonald, London, 1955

These volumes discuss the acuisition of the 262 by Japan.

 

[evangilder]

Good info, Twitch! And a belated welcome to the site.

 

[KraziKanuK]

BTW that plane in the picture is a Me 262B not an A-1 as stated on the other website.

Yes that has already been stated on pg1 of this thread > 999 - Messerschmitt Me262B-1a/U1 - W.Nr.110306 - coded "Red 6" of IV./JG11

 

[Twitch]

Well I am glad to be here and hope we can have some fun trading info and pics of all sorts of wild planes.

 

[evangilder]

Indeed, there is plenty of that here.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And plently of knowledge to go around. What someone does not know, someone else does.

 

[d_bader]

a couple of disassembled me 262 were send to japan during march 45 but the u boot surrendered to the US navy on 13 may 45 when germany capitulated, thru no me 262 reached japan, that left the japs with only the tech data to start the own jet program, although very similar to the me 262 , the nakajima kikka was pretty much an original design while the ki 201 karyu was a direct copy of the me 262, also the engines where based on the bmw 003b, but solely from photos of a cut away model provided by the embasy in berlin

In the same u-boat the Germans stored uranium, so that the Japs could make their own atom bomb as the Germans were almost finished. This uranium was captured and then used by the Americans against the Japs.

 

[evangilder]

Hard to say definitively if that uranium was used.

Upon its arrival in the U.S., newspapers immediately reported on the unusual contents of the U-boat. There were French cognacs and 240 tonnes of weapon components for delivery to the Japanese ally. The most important part of the shipment, however, was 560 kg of uranium. As written on the U-boat manifest, the top-secret material was intended for the Japanese army.

Was there really uranium on board? If so, what happened to it? Was it used for one of the two nuclear bombs dropped in Japan? Historians have not been able to determine conclusively. In the archives of Portsmouth, the records have been lost.

A recent statement of John Lansdale, a former U.S. secret agent involved in the Manhattan Project (the top-secret US atomic-bomb project), has renewed speculation on the German U-boat's reported uranium shipment. Lansdale was responsible for Uranium Logistics in the Manhattan Project. The former head commander, now 84, recalled that the uranium was delivered directly to the nuclear-bomb complex in Oak Ridge: "The transportation papers passed over my desk at that time." His statement confirms the suspicion of many researchers. One of them, Vilma Hunt, an American nuclear expert and historian who worked on a book about the use of uranium in World War II, notes: "The builders of the atomic-bomb had at that time very little uranium to use. They scraped everything that they could get together, and used it in their atomic-bomb programme."

Within the very short period from the end of May to the end of July 1945, would it have been possible to extract four kg of the uranium-isotope 235 from the 560 kg of uranium? Difficult, but not impossible, if one takes into account that 150,000 persons were working on the project to construct the bomb.

Even if the four kg of U-235 had been extracted, it probably still would not have played a decisive role in the making of the U.S.' first atomic-bomb. In Little Boy (the bomb dropped on Hiroshima), about 60 kg of U-235 was used. Even without the German delivery, there would have been more than enough material for the necessary chain reaction. The German uranium could have been used in the two plutonium bombs: Trinity, tested in the New Mexico desert, and Fat-Man, dropped on Nagasaki three days after Hiroshima.

The U.S. military was alarmed when it discovered the uranium on the German U-boat. U.S. military officials feared that Japan was more advanced in its atomic-bomb program than they had earlier thought. The fear was unfounded. Only 50 scientists had worked on the nuclear bomb program in Tokyo. Even if the U-boat had made it to Tokyo, the uranium would not have made a considerable difference. The Japanese simply did not have the complex technology for uranium enrichment.

Excerpted from a Der Spiegel article.
http://www10.antenna.nl/wise/index.html?http://www10.antenna.nl/wise/447/4440.html

 

[FLYBOYJ]

In the same u-boat the Germans stored uranium, so that the Japs could make their own atom bomb as the Germans were almost finished. This uranium was captured and then used by the Americans against the Japs.

Uranium for the US atomic bombs was enriched in the US - from what I understand, it came from Canada.

 

[wmaxt]

In the same u-boat the Germans stored uranium, so that the Japs could make their own atom bomb as the Germans were almost finished. This uranium was captured and then used by the Americans against the Japs.

Uranium for the US atomic bombs was enriched in the US - from what I understand, it came from Canada.

I don't know if it was used in the war but there is/was considerable uranium mined in the southwest to. Utah, Arizona and New Mexico are primary uranium sources if I remember right.

wmaxt

 

[KraziKanuK]

Some trivia, Chalk River: AECL traces its heritage to the Second World War when a joint Canadian-British nuclear research laboratory was established in Montreal in 1942, under the National Research Council of Canada to develop a design for a nuclear reactor. [1] In 1944, approval was given by the federal government to begin with construction of the ZEEP (Zero Energy Experimental Pile) reactor at the Chalk River Nuclear Laboratories near Chalk River, Ontario, located on the Ottawa River approximately 190 km northwest of Ottawa(where I live).

On September 5, 1945 the ZEEP reactor first went critical, achieving the first "self-sustained nuclear reaction outside the United States."[2] ZEEP put Canada at the forefront of nuclear research in the world and was the instigator behind eventual development of the CANDU reactors, ZEEP having operated as a research reactor until the early 1970s.

In 1946 the Montreal research laboratory was closed and research was consolidated at Chalk River Laboratories. On July 22, 1947 the NRX (National Research Experimental) reactor, the most powerful reactor in the world at the time, went critical and was "used successfully for producing radioisotopes, undertaking fuels and materials development work for CANDU reactors, and providing neutrons for physics experiments."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_Energy_Canada

Had a tour through it when in college - had a wee glow afterwards.

 

[delcyros]

Nice read, Krazikanuk.
I have always been interested in the early nuclear projects. I may add that the first self sustained nuclear chain reaction outside the US was in october 1944 in Gottow/Germany. K. Diebner established a short living atomic pile (test G IV). Evidence for this prior unknown test are found in several archives (including Moscow). According to the informations from a short handwriting of K.H. Höcker, this atomic pile melted down after a series of measurements have been recorded (there was an previously unknown effect of temporary delay in cooling down, so when they took the shut down reactor out of the water it melted down hours later) Recent analysis from officials confirmed the reactor accident (we know it happened after the measurement series because of a writing from Diebner to Heisenberg) at Gottow.

 

[Twitch]

delcyros- you are right about that story. The Germans didn't realize what they had!

As for uranium oxide being used from the U-234, why not? Refining to that stage was expensive and time consuming and there is no reason why the US wouldn't have added it to their mix. The U-234 amount was about 1/3- 1/5 the amount needed for an A bomb so it was just a partial anyhow.

 

[me262]

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[the lancaster kicks ass]

very interesting stuff, i'm amazed they could get so much into the subs.........

 

[Twitch]

The Japanese had HUGE transport subs larger than anything in Germany or the US. They supplied island garrisons with them too. The U-boats that sailed to the Orient were all comverted or built as cargo subs.

Kriegesmarine sailing records I have show 98 cruises begun with Oriental destinations. Along with the I-boats going the other way there was lots of lattitude for "goodies" to be tranferred.