An Me-262 In Japan

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by FLYBOYJ, Jan 27, 2006.

  1. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Syscom Came accross a great site, in it it had a photo of a Me-262 as Atsugi Airbase after the war. Does anyone have any information on this?

    http://www.flyingknights.net/ejspark/sparky10.htm

    [​IMG]

    Here's the site:


    Notice the P-80 in the background!
     
  2. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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  3. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor
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    Interesting stuff, I never knew about an Me-262 in Japan.
     
  4. Glider

    Glider Well-Known Member

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    Yes. It wasn't an ME262 obviously based on the design but the engines were very different. I have an article somewhere I will have to dig out. Going from memory the engines were a lot less powerful and its top speed was around 450-480. Only one prototype was built and I think it flew literally weeks before the end of the war.

    Will dig around and see what I can find.
     
  5. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    Look at the link I posted above about the info, Glider.
     
  6. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Good info Eric. I was aware of Kikka but if you look at this one it clearly looks like a Me-262, I'm wondering if this got there by sub and was used as a pattern aircraft.
     
  7. CharlesBronson

    CharlesBronson Well-Known Member

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    There was a project for a "japanese" Me-262 that is a heavier and better armed aircraft than the Kikka, that was the Nakajima Ki-201 Karyu ( Fire Dragon ).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    http://j-aircraft.org/xplanes/hikoki_files/ki201.html

    It dont progress further than a drawing and mocke-up, I think that Me-262 was captured in Germany and then exposed in Japan.
     
  8. me262

    me262 Member

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    i agree with you , also note that is a 2 seater, probably a trainer, and if i can remember well , the jap jet was only a single seater and smaller than the me 262
     
  9. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    I don't believe that in the Post war years the US would bring an Me-262 to Japan just for the hell of it, there has to be more to this!!!!

    If you follow the link TSgt. Etsyl Sparkman shows photos on Okinawa and then on the mainland, Atsugi is just to the south west of Tokyo and during the war was a major JAAF base. Obvously he was there as part of the occupation force.
     
  10. me262

    me262 Member

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    to tell you the truth i beggin to cast doubt on that pic, because according to the book me 262 stormbird raisng by hugh morgan :
    by 1947 this plane was outlive its usefull life and was put on display with other equipment in the washington memorial, the emblem on the nose was the watson's whizzers emblem but had the erroneous slogan der schwalbe painted in the nose, it was alocated the technical intelligence number T-2- 610 and was last seen in the cornell university in the 50's, after which was presumably scrapped.
    so i think someone did a photo montage and make that story
    now gunther rall was invited by the usaf to train american pilots in jet planes in case the war prolonged more, but rall decline stating that it was not honorable to fight former friend, the japs.
     
  11. KraziKanuK

    KraziKanuK Banned

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    The photo was taken in Aug 1948 at a display of captured a/c in Washington DC. The 262 is FE-610, Ole Fruit Cake, originally WNr 110306.

    The P-80 in the background is 485461.

    One can see another pic of this a/c on pg 847 of the Classic 262 series.
     
  12. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

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    Good work Krazi.
     
  13. delcyros

    delcyros Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, it´s a german one, no doubt.
    The wing configuration of Me-262 and Kikka differs a lot and this can be seen here (japanese designers redesigned the wing with much reduced wing sweep), not to speak of the details at the canopy.
     
  14. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Yeap thats it. Here is some more info that I have on it:

    During WWII, the U.S. Army Air Forces (USAAF) Intelligence Service sent teams to Europe to gain access to enemy aircraft, technical and scientific reports, research facilities, and weapons for study in the US The Air Technical Intelligence (ATI) teams, trained at the Technical Intelligence School at Wright Field, Ohio, collected enemy equipment to learn about Germany’s technical developments. The ATI teams competed with 32 allied technical intelligence groups to gain information and equipment recovered from crash sites. As the war concluded, the various intelligence teams, including the ATI, shifted from tactical intelligence to post hostilities investigations. Exploitation intelligence increased dramatically.
    On April 22, 1945, the USAAF combined technical and post-hostilities intelligence objectives under the Exploitation Division with the code name LUSTY. Operation LUSTY began with the aim of exploiting captured German scientific documents, research facilities, and aircraft. The Operation had two teams. One, under the leadership of Colonel Harold E. Watson, a former Wright Field test pilot, collected enemy aircraft and weapons for further examination in the US The other recruited scientists, collected documents, and investigated facilities. Having been part of ATI in 1944, Colonel Watson eagerly accepted the Operation LUSTY assignment.

    WATSON'S "WHIZZERS"

    In 1944, intelligence experts at Wright Field had developed lists of advanced aviation equipment they wanted to examine. Colonel Watson and his crew, nicknamed "Watson's Whizzers," comprised of pilots, engineers, and maintenance men, used these "Black Lists" to collect aircraft. He organized his "Whizzers" into two sections: one collected jet aircraft and the other procured piston engine aircraft and nonflyable jet and rocket equipment.
    After the war, the "Whizzers" added Luftwaffe test pilots to their team. One was Hauptman Heinz Braur. On May 8, 1945, Braur flew 70 women, children, and wounded troops to Munich-Riem airport. After he landed, Braur was approached by one of Watson's men who gave him the choice of either going to a prison camp or flying with the "Whizzers." Braur thought flying more preferable. Three Messerschmitt employees also joined the "Whizzers:" Karl Baur, the Chief Test Pilot of Experimental Aircraft; test pilot Ludwig "Willie" Huffman; and engineering superintendent, Gerhard Coulis. Test pilot Herman Kersting joined later. When the "Whizzers" located nine Me 262 jet aircraft at Lechfeld airfield, these German test pilots had the expertise to fly them.

    Watson's men traveled far and wide over Europe by jeep and occasionally by air to find the aircraft on the "Black Lists." Once found, they had to be shipped to the US Fortunately, the British were willing to loan the aircraft carrier HMS Reaper. The most viable harbor for docking the carrier and loading the various aircraft was at Cherbourg, France. The "Whizzers" flew the Me 262s and other aircraft from Lechfeld to St. Dizier, to Melun, and then to Cherbourg. All the aircraft were cocooned against the salt air and weather, loaded onto the carrier, and brought to the US where they were studied by the Air Intelligence groups of both the USAAF and Navy.

    DISPOSITION OF FOREIGN EQUIPMENT
    In 1945, the enemy aircraft shipped to the US were divided between the Navy and the Army Air Forces. General Hap Arnold ordered the preservation of one of every type of aircraft used by the enemy forces. The Air Force brought their aircraft to Wright Field, and when the field could no longer handle additional aircraft, many were sent to Freeman Field, Seymour, Indiana. In the end, Operation LUSTY collectors had acquired 16,280 items (6,200 tons) to be examined by intelligence personnel who selected 2,398 separate items for technical analysis. Forty-seven personnel were engaged in the identification, inspection, and warehousing of captured foreign equipment.

    In 1946, when Freeman Field was scheduled to close, Air Technical Service Command (ATSC) had to move the aircraft. The larger aircraft were sent to Davis-Monthan Field, Tucson, Arizona, and the fighter aircraft sent to the Special Depot, Park Ridge, Illinois (now O'hare airport) which was under the control of ATSC's Office of Intelligence. The Special Depot occupied buildings that Douglas Airplane Company had used to build C-54 aircraft. The aircraft were stored in these two locations until they could be disposed of in accordance with General Arnold's order.

    With the start of the Korean War in 1950, the Air Force needed the Special Depot; so the aircraft had to be moved outside. In 1953, some of the aircraft were moved to the National Air and Space Museum in Silver Hill, Maryland, and the remaining aircraft were scrapped. (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/lusty.htm)

    A Brief Introduction
    Watsons Whizzers was a popular name given to the group of pilots, engineers and maintenance men who worked under Colonel Harold E Watson to perform "Project Lusty", the retrieval of German aircraft engines and other aviation equipment for shipment and study in the US.

    After servicing, the Me262'a were renamed by the Watson Whizzer pilots as well as given identity numbers in the series 000, 111, 222 etc. After 999 had been reached a new series of numbers was started with 101.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    code/type/W.Nr./unit code/details
    000 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a/U4 - V-083 - named "Wilma Jean" and then "Happy Hunter II". Crashed in Europe and was not shipped to the US

    111 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a - W.Nr.unknown - named "Beverley Anne" and then "Screamin' Meanie". Shipped to the US Navy as BuAer.No.121442. On static display at the USAAF Museum, Wright-Patterson AFB

    222 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a/U3 - W.Nr.unknown - named "Marge" and then "Lady Jess IV". Shipped to the US Navy as BuAer.No.121443

    333 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a - W.Nr.unknown - bamed "Feudin 54th A.D.Sq", "Pauline" and then "Deeloverly". Shipped to the US Navy as BuAer.No.121444

    444 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a/U3 - W.Nr.unknown - named "Connie the Sharp Article" and then "Pick II". Shipped to the US and allocated FE-4012. On static display at the Planes of Fame museum at Chino

    555 - Messerschmitt Me262B-1a - W.Nr.110639 - named "Vera" and then "Willie". Crashed on landing at Cherbourg but repaired and shipped to the US. On static display at NAS Willow Grove

    666 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a/U3 - W.Nr.500098 - named "Joanne" and then "Cookie VII". Shipped to the US and allocated a yet untraced FE-number. Possible FE-4011. Crashed Pittsburg and written off August 1945

    777 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a - W.Nr.unknown - named "Doris" then "Jabo Bait". Shipped to the US and allocated FE-110

    888 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a - W.Nr.500491 - coded "Yellow 7" of IV./JG7 - named "Dennis" and then "Ginny H". Shipped to the US and allocated FE-111. On static display at NASM Washington DC

    999 - Messerschmitt Me262B-1a/U1 - W.Nr.110306 - coded "Red 6" of IV./JG11 - surrendered to RAF and allocated USA 2. Named "Ole Fruit Cake" and after being shipped to the US allocated FE-610.

    101 - Messerschmitt Me262B-1a - W.Nr.110165 - allocated USA 3 by RAF. Named "What Was it?" and later possible BuAer.No.121441. Scrapped November 1946

    202 - Arado Ar234B - W.Nr.unknown - named "Jane I" and shipped to US Navy, allocated BuAer.No.121445

    303 - Arado Ar234B - W.Nr.unknown - named "Snafu I" and shipped to the US Navy, allocated BuAer.No.121446

    404 - Arado Ar234B - W.Nr.140311 - surrendered to RAF and allocated USA 40. Shipped to the USAAF and allocated FE-1011

    505 - Arado Ar234B - W.Nr.140312 - surrendered to RAF and allocated USA 50. Shipped to the USAAF and allocated FE-1010

    http://www.indianamilitary.org/FreemanAAF/FE NUMBERS/Watson Numbers.htm
     
  15. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Great info guys! I guess the folks that put the photo on the website got confused on where it was taken. I've been to Atsugi and from the little shown of the background, it doesn't look like Japan to me.
     
  16. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    The site was still filled with good pics though.
     
  17. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor
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    Great stuff Adler.
     
  18. Twitch

    Twitch Member

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    There were multiple Me 262s sent via U-boat to Japan. Some 98 voyages began in Germany though all were not successful. The Kikka was a Nipponization of the 262 not a copy at all. It was smaller and lighter to accomodate the less powerful engines until stronger ones were available. Those were to be used on the actual 262 copy, the Ki 201 Karyu.

    Some of the transport U-boats were given to Japan and put into service with I-Boat designations.
     
  19. me262

    me262 Member

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  20. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Welcome to the site Twitch, nice siggy. I like it. I use the same aircraft on mine also.
     
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