Anybody else hear about this?

DOUGRD · Jun 10, 2008

Matt308 said:
Lee is a racist and a bigot. Like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, he is nothing more than a race pimp. Pushing revisionist history and threats of reparations in order to further his own personal gains. May he and the other two effers rot in hell for holding back a whole race of people with real potential.

Matt you hit that nail right on the head. He is nothing more than a black racist. As for the color of the troops at Iwo Jima, there was only one color on that island and it was Marine green!

drgondog · Jun 10, 2008

freebird said:
I know the flag raisers were all white, but were there any scenes of the battle in the movie? Were there blacks that did play a role in taking the island? Is Spike complaining because none of the flag-raisers are black, or because there are no blacks in the movie at all?

Ira Hayes was an Indian - and it screwed up his life forever.. no blacks at the top of Surabachi

A4K · Jun 11, 2008

Aside from the race issue, Clint needs to check up on his history too - the original picture of the flag raising on Iwo Jima was a fairly mundane scene with only one soldier sitting idly on the ground keeping watch, while a number of soldiers quietly raise the flag behind him, on a mast already in place. It is obvious the battle is over, and they're not expecting enemy fire.

The 'struggling together to upright the masted flag pole' is a posed shot and was taken later to better symbolize the struggle of the battle.

Wildcat · Jun 11, 2008

Lee's an idiot! If anyone bothers to look there IS a scene showing two negro's onboard the assault ship, when the marines are been briefed.

ToughOmbre · Jun 11, 2008

A4K said:
Aside from the race issue, Clint needs to check up on his history too - the original picture of the flag raising on Iwo Jima was a fairly mundane scene with only one soldier sitting idly on the ground keeping watch, while a number of soldiers quietly raise the flag behind him, on a mast already in place. It is obvious the battle is over, and they're not expecting enemy fire.

The 'struggling together to upright the masted flag pole' is a posed shot and was taken later to better symbolize the struggle of the battle.

A little off the subject, but the second flag raising was not a "posed" shot, and was not "taken later to better symbolize the struggle of the battle", but to put a larger flag on Suribachi. You may need to check up on your history as well.

TO

A4K · Jun 11, 2008

Are you sure, TO? There was an article published in an Austrian magazine in 1999 on the most symbolic or influential photographs of the 20th century, which included the pictures and information I mentioned.

ToughOmbre · Jun 11, 2008

A4K,

There are a lot more credible sources than an Austrian magazine article from 1999. Actually there is film footage of the second flag raising that shows the flag going up. Joe Rosenthal was standing right next to the guy with the movie camera and snapped a picture. Going frame by frame of the movie, it is possible to freeze a frame and identify the exact moment when Rosenthal took his picture.

Not a posed picture for Joe to take, just an incredibly lucky shot at the best possible moment. Clint Eastwood did a good job in "Flags" to accurately portray the scene.

BTW, there were a number of posed shots of the Marines celebrating at the top of Mt Suribachi after the flag raising.

TO

A4K · Jun 11, 2008

The article came from a magazine called 'Profil' which is a political, historical, and technological magazine, not just some 'woman's weekly'. What you say sounds believable, but that magazine sure dosen't print tripe...and if the picture concerned is the immortalized one of five or so Marines struggling to push up the US flag, then we're talking about the same thing...

Do any of our Austrian friends have that Profil ??

marshall · Jun 11, 2008

Where I can find what exactly Spike Lee said?

RabidAlien · Jun 11, 2008

Heh. Yeah, there's been a lot of controversy over the years as to whether or not "the flag picture" was real or staged. History does agree, though, that the picture in question was not of the original flag raising, as was inaccurately printed when the photo first came out, but was in fact of the second raising, which came about because someone wanted the original flag to take back to Marine Corps Headquarters in Washington, and because they wanted a larger flag that would be easier to see from anywhere on the island. Joe Rosenthal accompanied the platoon carrying the second flag to the top of Suribachi, met another photographer on the way down, and nearly turned around when he found out that "the momentous occasion" was already over, but decided to continue when the other photographer mentioned "but there's a great view of the harbor from up there". He happened to be in the right spot at the right time. The flagpole was not already planted in the ground due to the fact that the only pole they could find that would be tall enough to hold the larger flag was rather heavy, and since fighting was still going on in and around Suribachi, nobody really wanted to climb up the thing to tie the flag on. So it was attached on the ground, and the guys raised the pole with the flag already on it. Later on, he posed a bunch of Marines around the pole for the usual "gung-ho" shot with everybody cheering.

Rosenthal's camera had gotten wet getting off the landing craft that morning, so when he turned in the film, he didn't even know if anything on the roll would come out. Only three or four shots DID survive, and they were AP-wired back to the US before he even saw them. When he got back to the US, someone asked him if "the photo had been posed". Thinking that maybe the one he took the time to set up and frame was the one that had come out, instead of the "one in a million" snap as the flag was going up, he said that yes, he had posed the pic. By this time, he still hadn't seen the Photo. So....folks have always believed that The Photo was staged.

Staged....not staged....the photo is an incredible picture, and will forever remain one of the greatest images from the 20th Century.

And Spike Lee is still an idiot.

Attached pics are:
1) First flag raising on Suribachi
2) Taking down first flag, second flag has already been raised
3) The Photo, second flag-raising
4) staged "gung-ho" photo after second flag raising (Ira Hayes on far left, sitting)

ToughOmbre · Jun 11, 2008

Your description of the events on Iwo is accurate RA.

And as I said before, Clint nailed the historical facts perfectly in the film.

Spike, do us a favor and stick to watching the Knicks play badly.

TO

A4K · Jun 11, 2008

Yep, that's what I was talking about. Thanks for those pictures and additional information RA !

RabidAlien · Jun 11, 2008

No prob, A4K!

Now....to find FULL SIZE pics of those thumbnails....*g*

seamist · Jun 27, 2008

I just see it as a typical scenario,where a person wants to cause trouble,and imply some kind of predudice is involved.spike lee does it all the time for the * black cause *,as peter tatchell,the uk gay activist does it for the * gay cause *.It is all so one individual can steal the glory of another,and have their faces on t.v and magazines,being glorified as a new media * hero *.

timshatz · Jun 27, 2008

A4K said:
the original picture of the flag raising on Iwo Jima was a fairly mundane scene with only one soldier sitting idly on the ground keeping watch, while a number of soldiers quietly raise the flag behind him, on a mast already in place. It is obvious the battle is over, and they're not expecting enemy fire.
QUOTE]

Actually there is more to the first raising as well. The unit that went up left early in the morning when Suribachi wasn't secure with orders to put a flag on top. They hiked to the top, expecting to be ambushed all the way but it never happened. They got to the top, looked around and found a bit of pipe from a water collection system that had been destroyed, tied the flag to it and put it up. Pretty mundane event. But what is not said is right after the flag went up, the Japanese realized:

A. There were a bunch of US Marines on the top of Suribachi
B. They just put a -------- US FLAG UP!

That pretty much did it. Japanese started popping up and blasting away from all over the place. It took the Marines several hours to clear out the top of the mountain.

The second flag raising was done to replace the flag from the first one that was too small to be seen farther up the island. Have heard the staged stories before and Rosenthal addressed it later. He said he was asked if the picture was staged. He said "Yes", thinking the question pertaiined to the second, "Gung Ho" (as Rabid appropriately calls it) shot. He did not know he'd shot a world class photo with the first shot and thought he was being asked about the second shot.

Hence the reason for the legend. The first shot (of the second flag raising) wasn't staged anymore than the first one was.

A4K · Jul 1, 2008

After seeing RA's extra pics, and reading his and your info, I agree with you there, Tim.
(Thanks to you too for the extra info! )

Messy1 · Jul 1, 2008

I agree. That's a cool bit of info I had not heard before! Thanks!

RabidAlien · Jul 2, 2008

Read "Flags of Our Fathers", by James Bradley. Its about the three surviving men from The Photograph, about their lives and how they went on after the war (but, as you may expect, in much greater detail than the movie was able to portray). There is at least one chapter in there dedicated to Joe Rosenthal and all the crap he went through with people accusing him of staging that shot, and accusing him of claiming it was the original flag raising, etc. Alot of that info was new to me, too, so I did some more research online, and found out that yes, its true. So, I recommend that book to anyone!

JugBR · Jul 2, 2008

like brazil, united states is a multi-cultural and young country and also like brazil, usa does have problems with racism. i believe spike lee is wrong and right in part. he is right to make a film about the black american comunity at ww2, wich is an very unknow history for many people. but hes wrong issuing a movie made by another person, instead just analize it or make a critic without compare with yours movie.

RabidAlien · Jul 2, 2008

Yep. Nobody has denied the black community's input in WW2. Its just kind of hard to make a movie about stevedores or cooks, which, unfortunately, was about the only roles they were allowed during the War. I know there was a combat outfit in the Marines, and at least one artillery unit in Europe (wanting to say I recall an infantry unit, as well?)...maybe someone should research and write a script about them. Nowadays, the average Joe on the street wants to see a war movie with lots of planes, guns, explosions, and nekkid wimmin. So anything else, other than the "experimental" combat units, would have to be more of a documentary than an actual Hollywood blockbuster.

I will still, to this day, shake the hand of any man or woman who has served their country, during war or during peace, at any time....black, white, Asian, Hispanic, etc. You served. You get my respect. End o story.

And yet again...Spike Lee is an idiot.

Anybody else hear about this?

Staff Sergeant

Major

Brigadier General

Major

Senior Master Sergeant

Brigadier General

Senior Master Sergeant

Brigadier General

Senior Airman

1st Lieutenant

Attachments

Senior Master Sergeant

Brigadier General

1st Lieutenant

Airman

Chief Master Sergeant

Brigadier General

Master Sergeant

1st Lieutenant

Staff Sergeant

1st Lieutenant

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