Aviation myths that will not die

Julian_S · Nov 25, 2012

I was once at an airshow at Duxford and the commentator stated the differences between flying a Merlin Spitfire and a Griffon Spitfire. ''In the cockpit the sound a Merlin makes resembles an engine that's about to fail, with a Griffon it sounds like it already has failed.''

No doubt several thousand people will be repeating this snippet of information. Having recently spent an hour in a TF51 Mustang I can report with absolute certainty that the (Packard) Merlin sounds like a noisy unsilenced V12 and emits no sound indicative of failing whatsoever!

Julian.

FLYBOYJ · Nov 25, 2012

Shortround6 said:
Martin Caidin may have marketed the name but it appears in a WW II training manual or pilot's notes for the P-38. Unless he helped write the manual when he was 18 he didn't "invent" the name however much he may have used it.

I'd like to see that manual. I think it was mentioned in an earlier thread, LW pilots didn't call the P-38 "The Forked Tailed Devil."

As far as another myth - The AVG fought against the Zero.

tomo pauk · Nov 25, 2012

The pilot's manual of Aug 1945 does mention the 'Forked tail devil' as a nickname.

Shortround6 · Nov 25, 2012

Thank you, It appears that Martin Caidin didn't originate the name no matter how much he used it or profited from it. That doesn't mean the Germans used it or started it either though.

Siegfried · Nov 25, 2012

Njaco said:
In the old days (*cough*) kosher pickles used to be shipped in wooden barrels that were usually placed near the cash register so that people would pick and buy. Became an ornament at some stores.

Airplane.

I posted that just so that no one would accuse me of going Off-Topic.

And a dangerous collateral damage target for a trigger happy USAAF bombardier in training.

meatloaf109 · Nov 25, 2012

FLYBOYJ said:
I'd like to see that manual. I think it was mentioned in an earlier thread, LW pilots didn't call the P-38 "The Forked Tailed Devil."

As far as another myth - The AVG fought against the Zero.

And my favorite AVG myth; That they were in action well before Pearl Harbor.

muscogeemike · Nov 25, 2012

I can't believe that the US Army Air Corps hasn't been listed (even on this post someone refered to an "Air Corps" WWII pilot). The "Air Corps" became the US Army Air Force several months prior to the US entering the war. THERE WAS NO "AIR CORPS" during the period of declared war between the US and the Axis!

tyrodtom · Nov 25, 2012

muscogeemike said:
I can't believe that the US Army Air Corps hasn't been listed (even on this post someone refered to an "Air Corps" WWII pilot). The "Air Corps" became the US Army Air Force several months prior to the US entering the war. THERE WAS NO "AIR CORPS" during the period of declared war between the US and the Axis!

When I getting ready to join the USAF in 1965 one of my friends granddad said to me " I hear you're going to join the air corps".
There was a USAAC from 1926-41, and a USAAF only from 1941-47. The air corps was around a great deal more time so it stuck in peoples mind.

GrauGeist · Nov 25, 2012

muscogeemike said:
I can't believe that the US Army Air Corps hasn't been listed (even on this post someone refered to an "Air Corps" WWII pilot). The "Air Corps" became the US Army Air Force several months prior to the US entering the war. THERE WAS NO "AIR CORPS" during the period of declared war between the US and the Axis!

Actually, you're both right and wrong...

The pilot I was referring to enlisted in the USAAC in the late 30's and was transferred to the Pacific, seeing action against the Japanese for the duration.

As far as the Air Corps goes, after Congress established the United States Army Air Force in 1941, the Air Corps remained as a branch of the Army until few years after the war.

There was a huge amount of political in-fighting over this long before the war and afterwards...

muscogeemike · Nov 25, 2012

GrauGeist said:
Actually, you're both right and wrong...

The pilot I was referring to enlisted in the USAAC in the late 30's and was transferred to the Pacific, seeing action against the Japanese for the duration.

As far as the Air Corps goes, after Congress established the United States Army Air Force in 1941, the Air Corps remained as a branch of the Army until few years after the war.

There was a huge amount of political in-fighting over this long before the war and afterwards...

By order of congress the Air Corps became the US Army Air Force in June 1941. The gentleman you speak of was, prior to this date, in the Air Corps; as of that date he was in the US Army Air Force.

I worked with a man who was an armorer in the USAAF in WWII - he refered to his service as being in the AF, he didn't want to admit he was in the Army.

As to the "political in-fighting" when the Army requested more helicopters for casualty evacuation during the Korean War the newly formed USAAF lobbied (successfully) to prohibit this.

How many GI's died due to the AF's refusal?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Nov 25, 2012

muscogeemike said:
By order of congress the Air Corps became the US Army Air Force in June 1991.

Really?

I know it is just a typo...

GrauGeist · Nov 25, 2012

muscogeemike said:
By order of congress the Air Corps became the US Army Air Force in June 1991. The gentleman you speak of was, prior to this date, in the Air Corps; as of that date he was in the US Army Air Force.

It's entirely possible you missed the part of my post where I mentioned this...

I was given a P-38 lapel pin when I was a child (late 1960's), by a U.S. Army Air Corps pilot (later U.S. Army Air Force), Pacific Theater, who flew them and referred to it as a "Fork Taled Devil"...this is why I'm familiar with the term.

muscogeemike · Nov 25, 2012

GrauGeist said:
It's entirely possible you missed the part of my post where I mentioned this...

GrauGeist, I really have no issue with your post. Just like the oft mentioned Flying Fortress being named so due to its defensive firepower, it is just a pet peeve of mine that there is constant referral to the Air Corps in WWII, often by people who should know better.
You list your residence as Calif. I grew up in S. Calif; and, like you, I knew a P-38 (actually an F-5) pilot from the war, his stories are what started my lifelong love of the aircraft of this era.

bada · Nov 26, 2012

"P-51 won the war"?...

zoomar · Nov 26, 2012

But for Hitler's insistence the Me 262 be adapted as a high-speed bomber, the Me 262 would have been in service early enough, and in sufficient numbers, to substantially lengthen the war.

Soviet pilots flying I-16s routinely used deliberate collisions with enemy aircraft as a standard tactic

If Wever had not died, Germany would have had an effective long range heavy bomber force in WW2

FLYBOYJ · Nov 26, 2012

tomo pauk said:
The pilot's manual of Aug 1945 does mention the 'Forked tail devil' as a nickname.

View attachment 216992

Shortround6 said:
Thank you, It appears that Martin Caidin didn't originate the name no matter how much he used it or profited from it. That doesn't mean the Germans used it or started it either though.

Yep - and read some of the other propaganda after the Forked Tailed Devil line. We could see where Cadin got his inspiration!

bobbysocks · Nov 27, 2012

Julian_S said:
I was once at an airshow at Duxford and the commentator stated the differences between flying a Merlin Spitfire and a Griffon Spitfire. ''In the cockpit the sound a Merlin makes resembles an engine that's about to fail, with a Griffon it sounds like it already has failed.''

No doubt several thousand people will be repeating this snippet of information. Having recently spent an hour in a TF51 Mustang I can report with absolute certainty that the (Packard) Merlin sounds like a noisy unsilenced V12 and emits no sound indicative of failing whatsoever!

Julian.

i never heard that comment before about the mustang merlin until a couple years ago when at an air show a ww2 vet told me he always thought it sounded like it was going to "crap out" on him....

model299 · Nov 28, 2012

bobbysocks said:
i never heard that comment before about the mustang merlin until a couple years ago when at an air show a ww2 vet told me he always thought it sounded like it was going to "crap out" on him....

I remember the first time I heard a P38 running. Oshkosh, 1981 iffen I remember right. As it did a low flyby, I thought it sounded like 2 P51s with glasspacks.

varsity078740 · Dec 1, 2012

Colin Kelly sank a battleship 12/10/42
B-17s sank ships in the Battle of Midway

Duane

kettbo · Dec 2, 2012

varsity078740 said:
Colin Kelly sank a battleship 12/10/42
B-17s sank ships in the Battle of Midway

Duane

Duane,
I met a KELLY crewmember a few years back. Lives in my neighborhood

those myths still pop up from time to time

Aviation myths that will not die

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