B-25 crash into the Empire State building.
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GregP
Major
Definite loss of positiolnal awareness. It's like diving into 25 foot deep water with a 23 foot stump in it right where you jumed in.
Too bad he wasn't flying at minimum safe enroute altitude at the time.
Too bad he wasn't flying at minimum safe enroute altitude at the time.
GregP
Major
Yah, I know. But if you are flying over New York City, why not be higher than the tallest obstacle? There is really no excuse other than pilot error.
That would be my logic but from wiki the pilot was disorientated, I am not a pilot but it seems fog can make even experienced pilots do strange things.
On Saturday, July 28, 1945, William Franklin Smith, Jr., was piloting a B-25 Mitchell bomber on a routine personnel transport mission from Bedford Army Air Field to Newark Airport.[3][4][5] Smith asked for clearance to land, but was advised of zero visibility.[6] Proceeding anyway, he became disoriented by the fog, and started turning right instead of left after passing the Chrysler Building.[7]
GregP
Major
Every time I get in a fog I do strange things ... usually after some strong drink ... but I'd hate to wake up married in Las Vegas after a night of partying...
That's the leans, it happens, it will put you in a spiral dive, but not cause you to fly straight and level lower than you should be.
I remember seeing a programme about that, a pilot on a sightseeing flight (in the Antarctic I think) ended up with his planes wings almost vertical, I think from the little Ive read on the NY crash the pilot just lost track of where he was or perhaps which side of the Chrysler building he was passing. As I said Im not a pilot but I do know walkers even with a lot of experience get hopelessly lost in fog and make stupid decisions, sometimes ignoring roads they have walked across because it doesnt fit with their idea of where they think they are
parsifal
Colonel
Beer goggles with the fog....interesting combination whilst driving a machine with a couple of thousand horses pulling you along.......
GregP
Major
When I got my pilot's license in 1983 we learned that if we can't see the ground, even as a VFR pilot, fly the artifical horizon, needle and ball. It ain't rocket science. I've been caught a couple of times and had no difficulty staying straight and level. We just turned around and went back where it was clear and then prodeeded to an alternate. Once it was a gradual decrease in visibility and I just made a 180 and flew back for 5 minutes and was fine.
Even in WWII they had needle and ball and probably a horizon, so he should at LEAST have turned the correct direction. Today's standards may be different, but survival flying shouldn't be. It's one thing with a GPS and quite another entirely with only basic instuments. Basic instruments require you to be a bit ... shall we say conservative ... relative to today's instrumentation.
Alaska bush pilots know that, with or without GPS. We learned it in Arizona, too.
Even in WWII they had needle and ball and probably a horizon, so he should at LEAST have turned the correct direction. Today's standards may be different, but survival flying shouldn't be. It's one thing with a GPS and quite another entirely with only basic instuments. Basic instruments require you to be a bit ... shall we say conservative ... relative to today's instrumentation.
Alaska bush pilots know that, with or without GPS. We learned it in Arizona, too.
Can't imagine fog would be fun back then, not a huge surprise he got disorientated. Shame though.
I think it was a case of true disorientation, from what I remember the pilot was flying in poor visibility with the visibility rapidly changing due to banks of fog. The pilot saw the chrysler building and therefore had a fix without realising or thinking that it was a symmetrical building so where he thought he was wasn't correct and he turned exactly where he shouldnt have.
With the "miracles" of television and the internet even I am aware of visual effects on pilots that were not known in 1945. Accident investigations often reveal that pilots did the wrong things for the right reasons. I am sure the guy who crashed the plane didnt mean to, a tragic error.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Keep in mind that during a wartime military environment, minimums are quite frequently pushed to the limit regardless of rules governing safety, all one has to do is thumb through some WW2 accident reports and this becomes quite evident. Additionally instrument flying 65 years ago could be a hazardous affair, especially when comparing the equipment of that day to modern IFR equipment.
Thats what I had in mind Flyboy, not only were technical standards different but attitude to life was different. We take many more precautions to avoid a single crash today. It was only towards the end of the war that the massive number of crashes that wernt caused by military action were talked about and started to be investigated, many of them were simple navigation and "situational awareness"
9:55 AM, Saturday, July 28, 1945 B-25D 43-0577 "Old John Feather Merchant" Pilot- Lt. Col. William Franklin Smith, Deputy C.O. 457th Bomb Gp (H), crew chief Ssg.Christopher Domitrovitch and passenger Avaition Machinist's Mate 2nd Class Albert Perna hit the Empire State Building's 79th floor on the North, or 34th St. side. Speed approx. 250 MPH.
13 Dead, 26 injured.
B-25D all metal finish. no armament.
13 Dead, 26 injured.
B-25D all metal finish. no armament.
