Yep, I have those. Interestingly the first photos you see labeled "B-25H" are in fact B-25Gs.
B-25 weapons thread
- Thread starter Micdrow
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Ed, who's your relative? I have more lists from the 310-th group resp. from different squadrons with possible information.
Some years ago I helped finding I guy (William Lynch) from the 428. BS - there was even a photo of him in one of the war diaries.
BTW short mission reports like the one above can give a lot of information for the researcher, not only the names of the airmen. For example 3 of the planes have a TG (tail gunner). Oh, but B-25G has no tail gun!?!
Not exactly - here starts the fun. Those are modified B-25G. But which modification exactly: from C to G or from G to "modified G". OMG!
Yep, so it goes for years with me. Here's a photo of a modified B-25G12 from the 310th BG. for reference. Note the tail gun, 4-gun nose and (not quite visible, one can see the shaddow of the gun) non-staggered waist windows with guns - I already posted this photo in the same thread earlier (see post #315):
I really can't read the serial - have no "magic" software like those the "Lone Gunmen" had (the friends of Fox Mulder, remember) to clean every smudged photo and see details like this.
Cheers!
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special ed
2nd Lieutenant
- 5,602
- May 13, 2018
Lt. C.P. Shearer could be related as there were very few Shearer spelling back in the day. My second daughter is fully involved in genealogy. She has found family members from all sides not previously known. She found a relative from Ohio who enlisted in a West Virginia unit during the U.S. civil war and when traced to the W.Va. courthouse she found all unit members were awarded a State medal after the the Civil war, many unclaimed, including our ancestor's. Upon her identification, she received the old veteran's medal.Ed, who's your relative? I have more lists from the 310-th group resp. from different squadrons with possible information.
Some years ago I helped finding I guy (William Lynch) from the 428. BS - there was even a photo of him in one of the war diaries.
BTW short mission reports like the one above can give a lot of information for the researcher, not only the names of the airmen. For example 3 of the planes have a TG (tail gunner). Oh, but B-25G has no tail gun!?!
Not exactly - here starts the fun. Those are modified B-25G. But which modification exactly: from C to G or from G to "modified G". OMG!
Yep, so it goes for years with me. Here's a photo of a modified B-25G12 from the 310th BG. for reference. Note the tail gun, 4-gun nose and (not quite visible, one can see the shaddow of the gun) non-staggered waist windows with guns - I already posted this photo in the same thread earlier:
View attachment 673402
I really can't read the serial - have no "magic" software like those the "Lone Gunmen" had (the friends of Fox Mulder, remember) to clean every smudged photo and see details like this.
Cheers!
special ed
2nd Lieutenant
- 5,602
- May 13, 2018
Fantastic! Many thanks. Family folklore said some went to California during dust bowl but no proof.
You will be surprised how many Shearers one will find just checking on Fold3. If your daughter has an account there she can easily check enlistment records and other documents. At the moment I cancelled mine and can't access most of the stuff.
Just one small addition: 2nd Lt. Clyde Shearer was assigned to the 381-st Bomb. Squadron on Jan.12 1944.
Cheers!
Let's return to the B-25 armament theme.
When going through the war diaries of the 381st BS., 310-th BG. in Corsica, early 1944, I found the following unexpected note (check the note with asterisk below):
What? They made a C from a H (even just on paper)? That's not right! It's a demotion!
So it's maybe funnny today but was absolutely serious in March 1944. Check the next mission report : poor H does not exist any more in the documents - it became a C (plane #6):
And of course a "paper B-25C" cannot have a bombardier (B) like her sisters from the C-model and flies with a 5-men crew only.
Never seen a "change" like this before....
Cheers!
When going through the war diaries of the 381st BS., 310-th BG. in Corsica, early 1944, I found the following unexpected note (check the note with asterisk below):
What?
They made a C from a H (even just on paper)? That's not right! It's a demotion!So it's maybe funnny today but was absolutely serious in March 1944. Check the next mission report : poor H does not exist any more in the documents - it became a C (plane #6):
And of course a "paper B-25C" cannot have a bombardier (B) like her sisters from the C-model and flies with a 5-men crew only.
Never seen a "change" like this before....
Cheers!
special ed
2nd Lieutenant
- 5,602
- May 13, 2018
Thanks, an amazing revelation. With just a random sampling, Pennsylvania, Ohio, where brothers took a different road, to Kansas. A trip to Europe is required for the really old ones.
AT THE END!
Several times in this thread Paul and I discussed photos of modified B-25G in the Pacific (mostly from the 38-th BG.), known as B-25G1 (no dash! this is not a block number!) with single blister guns under the wings, in the bomb bay area. Check the following posts with pictures of this modification:
Post # 278
Post # 280
Post # 282
Post # 284
This photo
I already mentioned that I have seen a better photo of it but couldn't find it in my archive so far. O.K. yesterday was The Day - I found a movie (not a photo!) I saw a decade ago on Youtube, showing this unique armament. Here are 4 stills from the movie:
I believe the bulky box is the storage for cartridges as well - I don't see cartridges being stored in the bomb bay (on the inside of the blister).
The whole movie can be seen here. More field modifications are shown as well.
Cheers
Several times in this thread Paul and I discussed photos of modified B-25G in the Pacific (mostly from the 38-th BG.), known as B-25G1 (no dash! this is not a block number!) with single blister guns under the wings, in the bomb bay area. Check the following posts with pictures of this modification:
Post # 278
Post # 280
Post # 282
Post # 284
This photo
I already mentioned that I have seen a better photo of it but couldn't find it in my archive so far. O.K. yesterday was The Day - I found a movie (not a photo!) I saw a decade ago on Youtube, showing this unique armament. Here are 4 stills from the movie:
I believe the bulky box is the storage for cartridges as well - I don't see cartridges being stored in the bomb bay (on the inside of the blister).
The whole movie can be seen here. More field modifications are shown as well.
Cheers
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- Thread starter
- #510
Great find there Yves, Something new to watch for, I've seen the movie but guess never paided that close enough attention. Now I have to watch a whole bunch more to see what I have been missing LOL
- Thread starter
- #511
Yves, I found this interesting today reading The Sun Setters (38th Bomb Group) news letter on there web site from Sept 1989. I attached the news letter but found it interesting as It's a request from its members for pictures of a B-25 with 20mm cannon. "Quote below" I think most if all the pictures I have found so far belonged to the 3rd Attack Group. Something to look out for. More interesting is they are for the 405th Bomb squadron the Green Dragons.
- Thread starter
- #512
I heard about this but not this much detail of the bomb bay 30 caliber machine gun test by Pappy Paul Gunn. would love to find pictures of this. though 30 water cooled machine guns in bomb bay seems impossible but who knows. Source: The Sun Setters news letter May 1991 from Sun Setters web site.
And what I found interesting is the following note:
"...photo-gunner and radio-gunner manned 30 cal. guns from the waist windows..."
I remember discussing this point earlier - e.g. see my Post # 482 and this is another proof they used the 30 cal there.
Another photo with the same mod here (not 38-th BG. though):
As for the 20mm canon in the nose, the 405-th BS had those 4-guns in the nose "commercial strafers" and I remember you posted one with an additional 20mm gun (was this not in a discussion with a profile-artist...?( P.S. I was thinking of this thread) but don't remember from which group.
Cheers!
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- Thread starter
- #514
Actually have posted several with what looks to be 20mm cannon, They are in threads 166, 199-201. Yah saw the 30 caliber waist positions. Seems there have been modifications in China, Mediterranean and Pacific with that modification waist gun configuration till the 50 caliber became dominate.
- Thread starter
- #515
Morning, doing some light reading when I ran across this about a crew flying in Burma, it mentions both the 30 caliber waist gun position and the wobble gun in the tail that I had posted in thread 395 of this topic.
Source: Newsletter 01 1993 of the Sun Setters
Source: Newsletter 01 1993 of the Sun Setters
As per the above account the two poor guys in the back of the "Mitchell" (radio-gunner and upper turret gunner) had to manipulate 7 guns all together: 2 in top turret, 2 in belly turret, 2 side guns and one tail gun. The tail gun was activated by the top-turret gunner (not by the pilot this time) and the radio-gunner had to run from the belly turret to the left and to the right side gun in the back of the plane! WOW!
And the Zeros were attacking in the same time! Double WOW! They really needed a hand!
As it always happens, after 15 years or so (if one still remembers what was it all about!) one may find the answer to an old question - in the Internet or elsewhere. It happened to me during the last weekend.
I'm sure many of you have seen the following photo:
This is probably one of the crudest examples of a tail gunner "canopy" attached to an earlier B-25 (C or D). Not probably - for sure the crudest! A field modification which copies some of the Air Depot- or Factory modifications of late C and D models in the Pacific and in the MTO. My initial information was that this is a MTO-mod, but I have lost and forgotten where did I get this info from. Or maybe it was just a figment of my own imagination?
And 2 days ago (15+ years after my first encounter) I found this photo:
Follow the arrow, as they say. This can't be anything else but the "canopy" from the first picture. What do you think?
The crashed a/c is a B-25D from the 22-nd Bomb. Squadron, 341-st BG. in CBI.
Cheers!
I'm sure many of you have seen the following photo:
This is probably one of the crudest examples of a tail gunner "canopy" attached to an earlier B-25 (C or D). Not probably - for sure the crudest! A field modification which copies some of the Air Depot- or Factory modifications of late C and D models in the Pacific and in the MTO. My initial information was that this is a MTO-mod, but I have lost and forgotten where did I get this info from. Or maybe it was just a figment of my own imagination?
And 2 days ago (15+ years after my first encounter) I found this photo:
Follow the arrow, as they say. This can't be anything else but the "canopy" from the first picture. What do you think?
The crashed a/c is a B-25D from the 22-nd Bomb. Squadron, 341-st BG. in CBI.
Cheers!
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- Thread starter
- #518
As it always happens, after 15 years or so (if one still remembers what was it all about!) one may find the answer to an old question - in the Internet or elsewhere. It happened to me during the last weekend.
I'm sure many of you have seen the following photo:
View attachment 677277
This is probably one of the crudest examples of a tail gunner "canopy" attached to an earlier B-25 (C or D). Not probably - for sure the crudest! A field modification which copies some of the Air Depot- or Factory modifications of late C and D models in the Pacific and in the MTO. My initial information was that this is a MTO-mod, but I have lost and forgotten where did I get this info from. Or maybe it was just a figment of my own imagination?
And 2 days ago (15+ years after my first encounter) I found this photo:
View attachment 677278
Follow the arrow, as they say. This can't be anything else but the "canopy" from the first picture. What do you think?
The crashed a/c is a B-25D from the 22-nd Bomb. Squadron, 341-st BG. in CBI.
Cheers!
Afternoon Yves,
I would say you hit the nail on the head with this one, I looked through what books I could think of that I have for CBI and so far have not found any more pictures in them of this configuration. Its interesting how the Pacific, Med and now CBI went for the process and you where right I had seen the top picture before and had posted it in thread 203. The other ones in that thread are Pacific modification tail positions. True test will now be can we find more to see if it was a more than a one off for the CBI like the Med and Pacific.
I haven't had much time lately to research. We decided at what I call last minute and changed our mind as I will be going to Air Venture again this year so trying to get ready for that. Less than 2 weeks to go. I have found at least 5 B-25's that are supposed to show up below besides what I am guess parts for the Sand Bar Mitchell. If you want or need any specific photos let me know and I will try and get them or any one else for that matter.
Miss Mitchell
Devil Dog
Russian Ta Get Ya
Panchito
Berlin Express
All the best
Paul
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Hi Paul!
My first idea was to check all photos of 22-nd BS. "Mitchells" I have, for similar additions. Nada!
There might be another photo of the same a/c from a different angle but I don't know its serial (for now) to search further. BTW I found the photo in this collection.
As for the Air Venture - adventure: I'm really jealous you'll see all those Mitchells!
I'll check the birds you mentioned and will add some wishes maybe.
Cheers!
This is a postscript to my previous post # 517.
I might have found another link to the story with the field modified tail gunner position in the 14-th AAF, CBI. Among the oficial government photos from China one can find the following one:
This guys are adding a tail gun to a B-25D (or C) in a way similar to the other depot/factory modifications. See it in a detail compared to the photo I've shown before:
1. In both cases the standard perspex observation cone is cut in similar manner, leaving 1/3 of the cone in place.
2. In both cases at the top of the cone there is an additional angle, serving as an edge/trim, which is not part of the original assembly (see below).
3. In the first photo the one guy is standing or probably kneeling inside the fuselage, not on the top of the tail plane. This means that the top panel has been already cut out - there was no hatch or an openable panel there - compare with standard tail below.
Cheers!
I might have found another link to the story with the field modified tail gunner position in the 14-th AAF, CBI. Among the oficial government photos from China one can find the following one:
This guys are adding a tail gun to a B-25D (or C) in a way similar to the other depot/factory modifications. See it in a detail compared to the photo I've shown before:
1. In both cases the standard perspex observation cone is cut in similar manner, leaving 1/3 of the cone in place.
2. In both cases at the top of the cone there is an additional angle, serving as an edge/trim, which is not part of the original assembly (see below).
3. In the first photo the one guy is standing or probably kneeling inside the fuselage, not on the top of the tail plane. This means that the top panel has been already cut out - there was no hatch or an openable panel there - compare with standard tail below.
Cheers!
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