B-25 weapons thread

[CATCH 22]

If you want or need any specific photos let me know and I will try and get them or any one else for that matter.

Miss Mitchell
Devil Dog
Russian Ta Get Ya
Panchito
Berlin Express

All the best

Paul

Good Afternoon, Paul!
I hope you'll have a lot of fun enjoying the presence of the above 5 birds and maybe even fly in one of them (if they do flights with guests).
From all 5 for me personally "Berlin Express" is the most interesting. Why?
1. She's a Catch 22 - plane (from the original movie).
2. She was a former H-model but nobody can recognize this I believe.
3. She is the only a/c from the above 5 with original Holley carburetor intakes (even the engine exhaust have been changed as per Hayes post-war modification; see photo below) - you may check this if the observation position allows it.
4. She has a floor window in the nose (as discussed about another plane you've visited and photo-documented) - probably the nose is from an early B-25J-1.
5. She still has a door as during the filming of Catch 22 - this was Gen. Dreedle's plane!

6. There are also additional windows on both sides of the fuselage which might or might not be the same as during the filming:

But hey, you'll be there. Whatever you "catch" will be interesting (as usual)! Wish you nice time and clear skies!
Cheers!

 

[SaparotRob]

"What do mean I can't have him shot? I'm a General!"

 

[Micdrow]

Good Afternoon, Paul!
I hope you'll have a lot of fun enjoying the presence of the above 5 birds and maybe even fly in one of them (if they do flights with guests).
From all 5 for me personally "Berlin Express" is the most interesting. Why?
1. She's a Catch 22 - plane (from the original movie).
2. She was a former H-model but nobody can recognize this I believe.
3. She is the only a/c from the above 5 with original Holley carburetor intakes (even the engine exhaust have been changed as per Hayes post-war modification; see photo below) - you may check this if the observation position allows it.
4. She has a floor window in the nose (as discussed about another plane you've visited and photo-documented) - probably the nose is from an early B-25J-1.
5. She still has a door as during the filming of Catch 22 - this was Gen. Dreedle's plane!
View attachment 677740
View attachment 677741
6. There are also additional windows on both sides of the fuselage which might or might not be the same as during the filming:
View attachment 677742
View attachment 677743
But hey, you'll be there. Whatever you "catch" will be interesting (as usual)! Wish you nice time and clear skies!
Cheers!

Years ago I was inside here before they restored her back to flying condition. At the time the whole inside was stripped down, I wonder if they plane to restore the inside. Its supposed to fly around giving rides but not sure if I will buy one. I just spent a bunch of money for a new camera lens to try out this year

 

[GrauGeist]

If you get a chance to get a ride, take it Paul.
The lens will be around anytime you want to use it, the warbird might not.

Several years ago, I had a chance to take a ride aboard "nine-oh-nine" and I figured I'd do it next time around...

 

[Micdrow]

If you get a chance to get a ride, take it Paul.
The lens will be around anytime you want to use it, the warbird might not.

Several years ago, I had a chance to take a ride aboard "nine-oh-nine" and I figured I'd do it next time around...

Its not out of the cards but we will see

 

[Micdrow]

Afternoon,

I have been going through that website Yves that you posted in thread 519 and found all kinds of interesting stuff including these pictures showing both modified nose guns but what I found more interesting was the side gun mounts on some aircraft where still installed and could be used from the look of it and some look to be patched over as shown with arrows below.

Top two showing both the modifications to nose and waist balls still mounted. Looks to be the center one is still flexible wile rest are fixed. I would not want to sit in the middle of all that with those fixed 50's going off. Bottom one looks to be a plexiglass patch where the ball mount would have been.

 

[Micdrow]

Not the best picture but the only one I know of a B-25 Mitchell dropping a mine. Picture from the book Eagles, Bulldogs & Tigers. History of the 22nd Bomb Squadron in China-Burma-India.

View attachment 641895

I also found that they had a way better picture of the B-25 dropping the mine.

 

[Micdrow]

Hi Paul,
all those are B-25H with removed 2 guns. Even the oldest photo you mention is a H, not a G. In my post # 263, I compared the 4-guns noses of G- and H-models and one can clearly see that they differ. You always see cut-outs for the middle 2 guns in the upper "alligator"-type hood of the H-model.
Explanations for the missing 2 guns (I also believe some of these a/cs had their blister guns removed too) give some of the pilots in their memoirs. I believe this was the book I read these stories:
View attachment 599442
The a/c with the mask is from the 12-th BG, I believe the shark mouth is from the same BG. In CBI the H-model was used as a bridge- or train- etc. buster. The usual practice was to trace the target with the nose guns and then use the cannon or bomb the target. The 0.5 guns were ineffective against trains. 2 guns were enough for tracing and saved weight as well, as you mention.
Cheers!

Interesting enough they also had probably one of the best pictures I have seen of the two center 50 caliber gun set we have talked about in the past as well. Note as well this one does not have blister packs as far a I can see.

I

 

[GrauGeist]

Interesting enough they also had probably one of the best pictures I have seen of the two center 50 caliber gun set we have talked about in the past as well. Note as well this one does not have blister packs as far a I can see.

IView attachment 678083

wow...look at the armor they have installed!

 

[Micdrow]

wow...look at the armor they have installed!

Armor layout picture is at 396 in this thread if your interested

 

[CATCH 22]

Afternoon,

I have been going through that website Yves that you posted in thread 519 and found all kinds of interesting stuff.....

You are right - this site is like a treasure map: you just pick up a thumbnail and another little gem comes to surface.
I believe I found one more photo of the crashed B-25D with the field modified tail gunner's canopy (see posts # 517 and # 520):

Original photo with text is here.
And the first photo I found for comparison:

The new information is that this is a/c # 89 (I don't think it's 39) and the pilot's name is Major Weatherly. His full name is Edison C. Weatherly and he was the squadron commander as per the 22-nd squadron roster.
The new photo reveals the full nose armament (modified 5-gun nose) as well. Note that any of the 4 fixed guns is mounted in a different height - characteristic for this particular CBI-modification.
Cheers!
P.S. Interestingly enough even later model B-25J, coming from the factory with more guns in the nose have been modified in the same manner with 2 additional fixed guns in the nose - e.g. an a/c from the 490th BS.:

 

[Greg Boeser]

I'm amazed at the negative angle of the flexible nose gun. I didn't realize they could go that low.

 

[Greyman]

The gun can go down about 49 degrees, but only 25 degrees if you want to still get your head in there and use the sight (re: British examination).

 

[GrauGeist]

The gun can go down about 49 degrees, but only 25 degrees if you want to still get your head in there and use the sight (re: British examination).

I suppose that during a strafing run, the Bombardier (or whoever was manning the nose MG) was simply going to hose anything in sight during the hot pass.

 

[CATCH 22]

These are the angles the flexible nose gun (the early 0.30 variant) can be fired from the 3 nose positions: front, bottom and side:

As you see the front gun fires 20 degrees up and down (first picture top left) and 30 degrees left right. When we see the guns hanging down under a bigger angle they are in stowed position only.
One of Paul's photos shows a B-25 with the side ball and socket mount turned to the back.

It's an illusion that anybody can fire a gun in this direction - he'll hit the engine and/or the wing! On the top, right scheme for the side gun one can see that from this position the gun can be fired only 54 degrees (vertical angle) in the direction of flight and not back. Horizontally it moved 18 degrees in both directions. This means the gun was fired in the lower hemisphere.
In this case this is a modified a/c with 4+1 nose guns in the nose, but from the older type (before blocks B-25C-5/D-5).

The ball and socket mounts were left (for some reason) after the modification and not deleted as with some of the other planes. I'm preparing a sequence of photos with the probable development of the B-25 nose armament in the CBI. There are some really unexpected cases!
Cheers!

 

[Micdrow]

Just amazes me that we are still finding modifications though that's what makes it interesting for me. I need a month off just to update all my notes. Hoping we find more which I am sure with time. To bad I am to young to retire yet.

Awesome job as always there Yves

 

[CATCH 22]

Just amazes me that we are still finding modifications though that's what makes it interesting for me. I need a month off just to update all my notes. Hoping we find more which I am sure with time. To bad I am to young to retire yet.

Awesome job as always there Yves

Paul, don't forget: No two "Mitchells" are the same!
When I first mentioned the site with the CBI-photos, it was a pure coincidence I found it in the "ocean" of information. It is a goldmine! So many mods, so many armament types! Sometimes the later modification is "overwriting" the earlier but still letting traces and elements of it - it has no end!
BTW I found another photo with the B-25D being modified with the cumbersome tail gunners canopy - it was made after the one I posted (with the scaffolding) and shows the canopy on top of the tailplane, before its final mounting. Here it is (behind the airman's left shoulder):

The scaffolding on wheels looks to be the same as the one in my earlier post.
Original photo from here.
Cheers!

 

[Micdrow]

Paul, don't forget: No two "Mitchells" are the same!

True and I got to say you have taught me allot and I will keep saying it. You need to write a book on it. You have way more flare then I do in putting words into writing LOL.

 

[Micdrow]

Not sure who asked me this question or even if it was on this thread or at a airshow about wooden bomb bay doors on the B-25 Mitchell. I knew that I had read it some where and that the answer was yes that it was tried out but never remembered the source. Today I found it again so figured I would post it here today. It was in a North American Service News Bullion Vol 2 Number 5 that I had read at Aircorps library.

 

[CATCH 22]

Not sure who asked me this question or even if it was on this thread or at a airshow about wooden bomb bay doors on the B-25 Mitchell. I knew that I had read it some where and that the answer was yes that it was tried out but never remembered the source. Today I found it again so figured I would post it here today. It was in a North American Service News Bullion Vol 2 Number 5 that I had read at Aircorps library.

View attachment 678405

No way, Jose! They simply couldn't do this to my favorite airplane! This is not a "Mosquito", for pity's sake!
From now on I'll check more carefully every photo of a B-25H I have. This is s/n 43-4501 - an "Woody" as per the above list.

Same thing here - s/n 43-4571. The entrance hatches covers and the bomb bay doors appear darker. Are they painted with "aluminum colour"?

BTW, Paul, no joke here: "Berlin Express" is s/n 43-4432. Print the above information and show it to the guys flying this plane at Oshkosh. They must check their bomb doors!
Cheers!