cvairwerks
Senior Airman
Probably need to find the info on how the F-10's were equipped to be sure.
B-25 weapons thread
- Thread starter Micdrow
- Start date
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The equipment in Paul's post #676 looks like it may be either a Southwind or Stewart-Warner gasoline heater for the Trimetrogon camera.
- Thread starter
- #683
Interestingly, I was reading the war diary of the 418th NFS - the one using B-25H as night intruders for a couple of months, before seeing your post. When they converted to P-61, all their B-25 were also converted (probably) into Fat Cats for other units. I don't have a proof for the latter but this is mentioned in the original text - see attached. No idea where the one on the photo was used.
Units usually flew older planes (C,D) in this role but it's not uncommon to see some newer B-25 as well.
Cheers!
P.S. Paul, please check this thread (if you haven't yet) - I mentioned your name there, hoping you might have some visual references.
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
That star on the LG reminds me of the B-25 that was used as a general's transport in "Catch-22". "What do you mean I can't have him shot? I'm a GENERAL!"
- Thread starter
- #686
Afternoon Yves, I saw parts of it in the beginning a while back on my phone, Life been kind of hectic as of late. Long story short I spent almost the whole month in Illinois. Wont go into details but buried my father Memorial day and then last weekend just moved my son into his first apartment plus while at my moms my laptop died. First weekend back home so have my desktop back
. I will check it out along with your document 
Donivanp
Captain
Gen Dreedle (Orson Wells)
- Thread starter
- #688
Yves, Just found this today, Little more info on the display.
Thanks for the link, Paul. I was following this site and the forum years ago but then the information stopped coming.
Interestingly 44-28765 is a B-25J-15. As I mentioned before the a/c has the 2 fixed guns and the higher mounted flexible one which matches the serial. But why did they put a window in the floor? Here is a photo of the same frame with civil registration:
I have several photos of modified VBs (VIP-transports) - I'll check their serials and appearance as well.
Cheers!
- Thread starter
- #690
Just a thought on that, wonder if it was easier to look down for target before peering down the bomb site. Sort of like looking through binoculars. Usually you find the general direction and then peer through them in that direction but being that high up it for medium altitudes they found it ineffective. No idea at least for now.Thanks for the link, Paul. I was following this site and the forum years ago but then the information stopped coming.
Interestingly 44-28765 is a B-25J-15. As I mentioned before the a/c has the 2 fixed guns and the higher mounted flexible one which matches the serial. But why did they put a window in the floor? Here is a photo of the same frame with civil registration:
View attachment 726040
I have several photos of modified VBs (VIP-transports) - I'll check their serials and appearance as well.
Cheers!
Paul, I think the real "bombardier's window" was the one in the middle, with the wiper blade. The bombardier in his battle position could see through the bomb sight and through that window in a way you describe it. Unfortunately I can't prove this from experience - I've been in a B-25 bombardier's nose and looked around but didn't try the "front row".
This window was born in the time when the nose armament consisted of 1 hand-held 0.30 gun in 3 positions:
Check our previous discussion as well.
For a model with 2 fixed guns in the nose (almost all B-25J models) the same window would be useless for any observation from above. I believe this could be the reason not to install the 2-nd fixed gun in the museums nose.
Compare B-25J-1 with 1 fixed gun and later model with 2 fixed guns.
In one of your museums trips you've shown a B-25 with a window in the floor and I asked you about it (I guess it was The Sandbar Mitchell). On your interior photo (I can't find it now) is visible what are the chances to look through this window with and without a second fixed gun. See another photo of the same a/c below:
Cheers!
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- Thread starter
- #693
So not really sure what the real reason for the window was originally for.
I think these where the two Sand Bar Mitchell photos I think you where talking about.
It's funny because as I was looking for these I noticed that on this one that we have take a bit about looks to have the small window on the Pappy Gunn modified one. Never noticed it before with what looks to be the a patch where the ball socket was installed for the flexible 30 cal. and note also the patch for the lower fixed machine gun as well.
I think these where the two Sand Bar Mitchell photos I think you where talking about.
It's funny because as I was looking for these I noticed that on this one that we have take a bit about looks to have the small window on the Pappy Gunn modified one. Never noticed it before with what looks to be the a patch where the ball socket was installed for the flexible 30 cal. and note also the patch for the lower fixed machine gun as well.
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Yes, these are the photos I was thinking about (Sandbar Mitchell) and it's possible that the floor window was used for observing the target as you said. Later on it was deleted after installing the second fixed gun (is my theory).
As you see Pappy Gunn's mod on the above photo was done on an already modified B-25 - see patch in the lower triangular window - we discussed this before, I believe in the "Dirty Gertie from Bizerte" modelling thread. The former ball and socket mount was deleted and patched over and a fixed gun was installed, I believe in the mod-centers in the States.
This is the original condition of the nose, before being converted into a strafer. As you see same patch in the bottom window, new fixed gun in the lower triangular window and of course this is not a J-model (IMHO it's a C) - even Norm Avery makes mistakes.
- Thread starter
- #696
Air Venture is in 5 weeks, as of now I am not going but my son is trying to talk me into going on a Saturday for that week. I've been there for like 25 to 26 years straight except for the year of Covid as they did not have it that year. If I go I and Sand Bar Mitchell there I will ask them and see if they know the purpose of that window. Time will tell yet.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Guys, just a thought, but could that extra window have something to do with being equipped with a Norden Bombsight?
I know that not all B-25s were equipped with it and the ones that were, didn't have the flexible .30 installed.
I know that not all B-25s were equipped with it and the ones that were, didn't have the flexible .30 installed.
No. B-25 were manufactured in the very same way, no matter what bomb sight would be used later. The floor window stopped being installed at the end of block J-1, but later blocks used the Norden as well. IMHO it is not really a standard that bombers with Norden didn't have the flexible nose gun (0.30 or 0.50). It is possible that the later has been temporarily deleted, but the bomb sights (no matter what type) and the nose guns were used together all the time.
The window in the floor is an early feature and disappeared at some point of this a/c development. It's the same with some other windows e.g in the navigator's compartment or in the radio-compartment (compare C,D, G-models with H,J).
I personally started talking about it, because restored "Mitchells" from later J- blocks have the floor window installed. IMHO it's a mistake.
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Hope this photo wasn't posted earlier in the same thread - over the years I started forgetting my own contributions.
A staged photo from the early B-25 months in North Africa. This are men from the 12th BG - the first B-25 group in the MTO. The interesting part is that the bombs we can see are not US but British. Don't mix this type of use with the RAF-Mitchells though.
Cheers!
Source: FOLD3 (those WWII photos are free for use and have no copy-rights to be afraid of!)
A staged photo from the early B-25 months in North Africa. This are men from the 12th BG - the first B-25 group in the MTO. The interesting part is that the bombs we can see are not US but British. Don't mix this type of use with the RAF-Mitchells though.
Cheers!
Source: FOLD3 (those WWII photos are free for use and have no copy-rights to be afraid of!)
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Not a problem. I forget I've seen them.
