B-25 weapons thread

[cammerjeff]

While browsing photo's here The Digital Collections of the National WWII Museum : Oral Histories | Oral History

I found this photo listed as a B25d with what looks like a variation of the covered side machine gun mount. Does anyone have anymore info on it? Is it a metal plate that the mount is attached to in the plexiglass?

 

[BlackSheep]

Check this thread. (10 years old!)

Can I opt to be shot sans blindfold? I would much prefer to look my unalivers in the eyes.

 

[CATCH 22]

While browsing photo's here The Digital Collections of the National WWII Museum : Oral Histories | Oral History

I found this photo listed as a B25d with what looks like a variation of the covered side machine gun mount. Does anyone have anymore info on it? Is it a metal plate that the mount is attached to in the plexiglass?

"Arkansas Traveler" is one of the earliest "Earthquakers" in the MTO. This a/c is a B-25C (no block number) from the 12th BG. The standard delivery was with 3 ball@socket mounts for 0.30 guns in the nose:

The strange "funnel" we see in your photo is probably some kind of field modification, added for strengthening the base of the mount and probably with the hope to give the bombardier a better flexibility. Yes, it's metal. As discussed in some of the previous posts in this thread the original mount was attached to the glass/plexi only. Later models with a heavier flexible 0.50 gun in the nose received a standard metal base plate.
Similar mods with a metal base can be seen in other bomb. groups and theaters as well. Below some examples from:
38th BG.

345th BG.

And a B-25D-5 from the 345th BG. with gun mount on the right side of the nose (D-5 have been manufactured with no 0.30 guns in the nose - those have been added in the field):

Cheers!
P.S. A couple of hours after I posted the above a friend of mine wrote me the following (I'm paraphrasing): It's not what you think. It's just a washing bowl behind the glazing. The ball&socket mount is still attached to the plexi.
He sent me a bigger detail as well:

He might be right. The nose is strangely stuffed with blankets or some kind of packed stuff too. Maybe they were moving from one base to another?
P.P.S. After some searching through my "private archive" I found another photo of the same a/c (was a surprise for me!):

It is obviously done later than the previous ones. The a/c is already over-sprayed with O.D. in some areas (when the 12th BG. moved to Tunisia resp. Sicily). We don't see much but IMHO the "bowl" is not there (just a small strip of the window is visible in the left upper corner).
Cheers!

 

[Micdrow]

Here is a clearer picture of Arkansas traveler and great info.

 

[cammerjeff]

Thanks for clearing up the mystery (to me at least) It does look like a bowl shoved up to the inside plexiglass.

 

[GrauGeist]

And here I thought they had a satellite dish installed for better TV reception!

 

[BlackSheep]

And here I thought they had a satellite dish installed for better TV reception!

Actually, GrauGeist, I sincerely doubt the crew would have time to watch tv, while bearing down on enemy targets, in the middle of a war zone. That is almost as ridiculous as speculating on the feelings of an enemy soldier regarding the shark's mouth paint job on the plane attacking him. If you can't beat them, join them!

Or maybe an improved version of the old glass against the wall eavesdropping trick. Before the various mics dropped on the Ho Chi Minh Trail, B-25 pilots would put their ear up against the bowl and when they heard the bad guys say, "there's a plane coming", they knew where to get them…. Something tells me someone is going to point out that the presence of a big azz radial engine, just outside the cockpit, would render this technique useless and to that person all I have is

 

[Greg Boeser]

From a Tokyo newspaper, May 3, 1942, a photo of a captured AVG P-40.
Caption: Note the peculiar design painted on the wreckage - a shark's bared teeth. If these markings were found on a submarine, the significance could perhaps be understood; but on a plane?*

On the other hand, I have seen strike photos of Japanese boats being attacked by B-25 strafers, with the hapless sailors crouched in terror on the opposite side of the ship from the direction of attack. I'm almost certain the fear was generated by the 14 forward firing .50s and not the admittedly awesome noseart of the attacker.

* Dan Ford - Flying Tigers

 

[SaparotRob]

I would think the flame, smoke and tracer spat out of a rapidly expanding dot might impede appreciation of any artwork.

 

[GrauGeist]

I've seen both skip-bombing and gunship strafing footage and while the skip-bombing was impressive, the gunship attacks were downright fearsome.

In either mode of attack, I seriously doubt anyone was taking the time to look at anything other than a way to save their ass amidst the carnage.

 

[CATCH 22]

View attachment 700265

Back to my post # 608 and to the photos of "Sandbank Mitchell" Paul posted earlier - see above link.
I checked photos of restored B-25J with the small and the big gun plate with the hope to find some details similar to those previously mentioned. Here is one with a small plate:

And here one with a big plate:

It is clear that the hole in the "Sandbar Mitchell"'s plate is not for the actuator of the windshield wiper, as I suggested. In both cases the gun plate has a cutout (bottom edge) where the actuator is placed and this detail didn't change during the B-25J development.
The possibility that the whole was for a camera or for some specific instrument added only to the Soviet "Mitchells" remains. The truth is out there!
Cheers!

 

[BlackSheep]

From a Tokyo newspaper, May 3, 1942, a photo of a captured AVG P-40.
Caption: Note the peculiar design painted on the wreckage - a shark's bared teeth. If these markings were found on a submarine, the significance could perhaps be understood; but on a plane?*

On the other hand, I have seen strike photos of Japanese boats being attacked by B-25 strafers, with the hapless sailors crouched in terror on the opposite side of the ship from the direction of attack. I'm almost certain the fear was generated by the 14 forward firing .50s and not the admittedly awesome noseart of the attacker.

* Dan Ford - Flying Tigers

One of the best stories I've read involved attacks by Beauforts followed hours later with attacks by Beaufighters escorting A-20s and B-25s on Japanese shipping. After the first attack, the Japanese assumed the Beaufighters were actually -forts and turned into the attack to avoid torpedos instead they only succeeded in presented themselves as linear targets for the Beaufighters to kill and disrupt the anti-air defenses in time for the skip-bombers to make their runs..

 

[MiTasol]

That sounds a little like the Battle of the Bismark Sea. There are several videos on youtube of that.

 

[Greg Boeser]

Sounds like the Battle of the Bismark Sea. First major employment of low level strafers by 5th AF. Eight transports, four destroyers sunk.

 

[MiTasol]

I presume you guys are all familiar with this book but if not here are the first couple of pages of interest to this thread. I have not read it yet

 

[CATCH 22]

I presume you guys are all familiar with this book but if not here are the first couple of pages of interest to this thread. I have not read it yet
View attachment 701305
View attachment 701306

It's not only about "Mitchells" but all the chapters are interesting and full of detailed information. You can see it as a collection of articles, not as a book. I didn't read all the chapters but those about B-25 are really interesting and some of the photos have been published for the first time.
MiTasol, I used the photo on page 176 several times in this forum to illustrate an early B-25J.
Highly recommended! The other very good book about the second NAA factory is this one (also highly recommended):

Cheers!

 

[Micdrow]

Took this the other day Yves, thought you might find it interesting.

 

[Wurger]

 

[Micdrow]

Finally got to Liberal Kansas to shoot this girl. 8 nose gun B-25.

 

[Micdrow]

Never new this existed till last week at Pima.