B25

DBII said:

I read a little last night. The Russians added a 37 mm cannon on some of the planes. The Kansas City factory started adding the waist gun positions to the later blocks of the D models and installed the first tail gun postions with a single .50 cal. The waist guns were not used on the G models but were picked up again on the H after the turret was moved forward.

DBII

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From Jerry Scutts book -

"Data compiled on Axis fighter interception of Allied bombers during World War II invariably recorded numerous attacks from directly aft. Any bomber without extreme tail defence was deemed to be that little bit more vulnerable to fighters, and in the case of the B-25, a number of C and D models had their armament increased by the installation of a single 'stinger' gun in place of the Plexiglas tail-cone. In addition, enclosed waist windows' were often located just aft of the wing, forward of the dorsal turret (which was retained), and a raised cockpit was provided for the tail gunner.
None of the early B-25C/D models was built with extreme tail defence, and it was left to service depots, forward maintenance units operated by Air Service Command, and workshops run by the combat groups, to carry out the modifications. All such units played a vital part in maintaining the flow of new and repaired combat aircraft to the operational squadrons, and all were capable of carrying out field modifications. In the case of the B-25 they were often concerned with armament changes. The tapered tail of the B-2SC/D left little space for the breech of a O.5in machine gun, and installing a machine gun usually meant chopping back the fuselage plates flush with the trailing edge of the tail plane to create the maximum possible space and improve the field of fire - which was, in any event, limited to a few degrees in azimuth, elevation and depression. To operate the gun from his 'open' position, the gunner had originally to lie prone. The installation of a cockpit over the tail plane allowed space for a seat, enabling him to sit upright, which was a considerable improvement. No identifying model number is known to have been allocated to these hybrid B25s - or indeed the total of aircraft involved - despite them being numerous, although the RAF did identify those machines it received as the Mitchell Mk IIa. When the larger waist windows were installed, individual aircraft also sported external bracing struts attached to the fuselage longerons as an added safety measure. Each window and its gimbal gun mount weighed several hundred pounds, and some crusty engineers doubtless felt that it was best to be safe rather than sorry."

DBII said:

V2 that is an interesting link. The story is good and I do not remember seeing the pictures before. One picture shows both the white circle around the Red Star and the added waist gun positions to the D models. I cannot tell the weapon type in the tail but is looks like the same gunner station as on the G model instead of the modified C/D tail. Thank you.

DBII

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The photographs are of B-25Cs at Fairbanks Airfield. The chalk marks indicate defects found by the Soviet acceptance representatives. Most photos of Soviet B-25s seem to be taken in the USA by NAA or on the AL/SIB route. Those taken at the front are by usually of poor quality.

I hope that I can produce a couple of models that reflects the effort that everyone has put into my project. I can see myself going crazy cranking out B-25s. I have two in the works, a J and H. Since I have decals for 3 more Soviets, I have to make them. I have to have one Doolittle Raider. I might as well go ahead and make a B and a G just to have a complete set.

V2 once again you have found some nice shots. Any thoughts as to what the square object is in the center of the nose? It looks like the air intake has an oil leak? Is it possible that the planes have a cannon instead of a .50 cal in the nose?

DBII

Really niece pics you have found V2.
DBII,which the square object do you mean?

In the 1st V2 picture from yesterday, above the man's head in the center glass is a large square object. It looks like it is sitting on top of the ammo cans for the two fixed .50 cals. It maybe amore ammo?

DBII

I think it is a ammo can.Look on a bit right of it.It seems there is a ammo belt.

My eyes are getting old. Thanks, that is better. That is alot of ammo cans. I thought that that feed was running to the flexible weapon. I can see now were it wraps around to a fixed .50 cal. I guess there is a room for me to be creative. Would it be worth the effort to install the cables used to counter balance the .50 cal? I have a thin wire but I do not think that it will been seen. Pay day is friday and I hope to get painting soon.

DBII

It is up to you only.It is quite common that many of details we made for a model become unvisible when the halves of fuselage or wings are put together.

DBII,have you seen the book?

great discussion.

The nose area was modified after delivery. The original crew had a bomb-aimer in the nose and navigator behind the pilot. Soviets had both functions carried out by the navigator so all the navigation equipment was transferred to the nose. The Wimperis bomb site fitted to export B25s was replaced by a Soviet OPB-1. So what they looked like in this area is pretty much a guess.

Wurger, that is a good book, I have seen it. The only model shop on my end of town closed last summer. I will have to make a trip into Houston and see what else I can find. Trecker and everone else has permission to laugh at my finsihed product. I know that I will. Practice, practice, practice.

DBII

Why would we be laughing at your efford.

The last model I made was in 1978. I have seen everyone's work. There are talented artists on the site. The group had inspired me to build a plane and I have enjoyed doing the research. I am learning more about the plane that my great uncle flew during the war. My plane will turn out fine, it just will not be the fine quality of everone else. I believe in having fun and I have had nothing but fun since I found this site. I know that the master and expert builders laught at a beginner because they remember the mistakes they have made over the years. The laughter is not mean but rather an acknowledgment of the learning process that everone shares. I look forward to joining this group and providing laughter for all.

DBII

An interesting point of view.

So what are you thinking about this model?

That brings back memories. One of my best models was the same plane but a Monogram. The markings were different and I did not use the drop tanks. My moniter is not the best in the word but from the looks of the first picture, the plane was painted by hand. Either there was an attempt at weathering or the paint was not mixed correctly. Some places to much paint and others to little maybe? No paint on the canopy. The second photo looks better. Is that mud on the wheels? It reminds me of a 1/32 scale P-51B that I made over 30 years ago. D$* I am old...lol. The rantings of an old man. I like the plane. It reminds me of the weekends nights I spent building my air force. I hope that my current projects turns out this well. I always like the Hurricane better than the Spitefire. It must be the 20 mm cannons.

DBII

DBII said:

The last model I made was in 1978. I have seen everyone's work. There are talented artists on the site. The group had inspired me to build a plane and I have enjoyed doing the research. I am learning more about the plane that my great uncle flew during the war. My plane will turn out fine, it just will not be the fine quality of everone else. I believe in having fun and I have had nothing but fun since I found this site. I know that the master and expert builders laught at a beginner because they remember the mistakes they have made over the years. The laughter is not mean but rather an acknowledgment of the learning process that everone shares. I look forward to joining this group and providing laughter for all.

DBII

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DBII, the modelling ladder is a long one, WE ALL start at the first rung and move up as we learn, we are all simply at different levels, thats how I look at it. Your point about the 'laughter' is well taken and a good one! I look forward to seeing your builds, enjoy, have fun and good luck...mate.

I agree with Wayne totally DBII.But coming back to the Hurricane model,it is a Revell 1:72 scale model.It was made by very young man ( he is six/seven years old).Unfortunately ,there was nobody from he could find out how it should be made.But it is not a reason to laugh at him.Simply he did as much as possible taking his age,knowledge and skills into consideration.His next model will be better for sure.

I think he's done great Wurger.....credit to him if he's only 6 or 7 years old....wish my models looked like that back then...

Maybe a future member of this forum, eh?

I was not allowed to use paint at that age. I think that you may have misunderstood the laughter. I would not laugh at his work. I think it is good work. Look how nice the lines are on the camo pattern. Throughout life we are all learning. As we get older we can look back at our choices and laugh at ourself. It is the same thing with the models. When I look at his first plane, I am reminded of the plane I first made. No paint, the clear plastic covered in glue, tires painted with a black marker, the decals looked sad against the grey plastic. Funny today. Lets get back to the matter at hand. I found extra parts that were included for the B25 but not listed on the instructions. It includes a bomb site and a seat. I am trying to disassemble the work I have already done. I am going to made the nose like the picture with the large ammo container.

DBII

Hi DBII.

Oh.. I've really misunderstood your intentions Sorry for that.
I'm still going better with my models than with English.
So it is OK.Waiting for pics of your B-25s.

And Jan you are right.His models get better.I also hope he will be a good modeller and possible a future member of the forum.