Badger 105 Patriot Airbrush

Discussion in 'Questions on Kits, Decals, Tools and Pilots' started by prem895, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. prem895

    prem895 Active Member

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    I just ordered one of these in the hope it will perform better than my cheap Chinese made dual action ones. It may just be me,and maybe I don't thin my enamel enough,because it seems to spray fine one second and then no paint or very little. I stop and it does the some thing.Could it be the cheap $1 0.2 and 0.3 offshore needles or is it you only get cheap results from cheap guns. I don't know the answer. My question is,is for you guys who use this brush. Have I made the right move buying this or am I just doing something wrong with the cheapo one.BTW I use MM or Hu enamel thinned with lacquer thinner. Any advice. I have 6 or 7 models ready for paint,but I am scared that the cheapo one will sputter and ruin something I spent so much time to get ready for paint HELP ME!
     

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  2. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Sounds more like a thinning problem. The use of lacquer thinners doesn't sound good. You should be using an enamel thinners, or White Spirit (Turpentine substitute) , with a thinning ratio start point of 50/50, possibly going to 60% thinner to 40% paint, or even higher thinner ratio, depending on the paint, pressure, distance, temperature etc.
    I've been using a cheap airbrush, costing less than $25, with a simple, fixed pressure compressor, for the past five years, without any major problems.
    Experiment with various ratios and pressures, spraying onto card, or a scrap model, in order to find the best set-up.
     
  3. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

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    As Terry posted, if I read you correctly you are mixing two different types of paint: enamels and lacquers. Lacquer solvents have very high vapor pressure and evaporate VERY quickly which is why they "dry" so quickly. A very good general rule is to never mix paint types. While it can be done it can also be a disaster. My airbrush choice is Testor's workhorse Aztek with replaceable cups and nozzles to alter the spray quantity, color, and pattern almost on the fly. I have also found the double action to be much easier than the single to use.
    So as Terry posted, if you are indeed using enamels use a MINERAL SPIRIT or TURPENTINE thinner/solvent. The thinned paint should be the consistancy of milk. You might also, for the time being, just paint scrap (I used styrofoam take-out restuarant trays when I started) when you can consistantly paint these evenly THEN return to your models
     

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  4. prem895

    prem895 Active Member

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    If I am not mistaken crimea river Andy says he has been using laquer thinners with enamels for yrs and has had no problems with compatibility. Correct me if I am wrong CR
     
  5. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Yep, lacquer thinner worked fine for me with MM enamel on the few builds that I did this way (at the time, I didn't know better) but I've since switched to Tam acrylics. Maybe I just got lucky. Conversely, I just got into trouble with mixing an old Humbrol enamel with a mineral spirit and had the paint dust on me. Wrong ratios. I agree with the guys that the thinner/paint ratio is important, perhaps more so than mixing the enamel with lacquer thinner, though getting both the ratio and the proper thinner type correct would be best. Sounds to me like you have too thick a mix so your nozzle is clogging intermittently.
     
  6. prem895

    prem895 Active Member

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    I think you guys are right with my mix ratios.I was just eyeballing it and it seemed like the right consistency,but I guess not.Sometimes it worked ok and other times a piss off,so I thought it was the AB. I got me the Badger thinking it will do a better job. I also grabbed a box of these 3cc syringes. I tested one to try seeing if it will draw paint,and it does that great,no mess and no waste like a pipette. I was afraid the the LT would melt the plastic or rubber plunger,but that was not the case. 1st the paint,then the thinner press it into the AB cup and the thinner cleans the syringe like new paint-thinner ratio for Hu paint seems to be 40 -60 even 30 -70 for heavier bodied paint Have you guys tried or use syringes? 100 syringes for $10 was worth the gamble
     

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  7. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Yes, I used to use syringes about 35 years ago, but then just went back to my old method - two dobs of this, one dob of that, and so on.
    These days, I wouldn't be able to handle a syringe anyway, but not a problem, as I use either clear plastic shot glasses, or the similar medication measures. Just pour the paint in or, as I do, use a 'loaded' paint brush as a measure, then a trickle of thinners (NOT lacquer thinners!), mix and stir. When it runs down the side of the shot glass like milk, it's probably right. If it needs a tad more thinner, just add by the drop.
    As you can see, very technical and complex !
     
  8. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Like Terry, I go by feel. I think your lacquer thinner will, over time, eat your syringes. Try brushing the stuff back and forth on a piece of sprue and watch what happens.
     
  9. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

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    Like Terry I've never really measured quantities of paint or thinner. Now I use acrylics so my thinner is 70% Isopropyl alcohol (Rubbing). 1/2 cup (paintbrush cup) paint and 3-4 drops of thinner stir, drop or two more stir, looks good...spray!
    Lacquer Thinner is usually a mixture of solvents able to dissolve a number of different resins or plastics used in modern Lacquer. The thinners frequently contain alkyl esters like butyl or amyl acetate, ketones like acetone or methyl ethyl ketone, aromatic hydrocarbons like toluene, ethers such as gylcol cellosolves, and or alcohols.
    Acetone (nail polish remover) can be used to "glue" plastic kits together. It literally melts the plastic. And Toluene plus some Nitric acid makes some really fun stuff
     
  10. dneid

    dneid Active Member

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    I tend to stay with similar thinners/paints (ie mineral spirits with enamels, acrylic thinners with acrylics, etc). I use lacquer thinner to clean my brushes about once a week. As for measuring, I use those soft plastic pipettes and just count the drops and then use a glass eye dropper for the thinner of choice, again, counting drops. Now, as for how much I thin.... I tend to start at 30% thinner/70% paint and thin down as needed. However, I rarely thin more than 40%-50%. Maybe I need to experiment with more thinner. I do adjust air pressure down as I increase the thinner content. When I thin to 40% I shoot at about 8psi. 30% thinner and I use about 12-15psi. The larger the area to be covered usually results in increased air pressure. Maybe I should do some experiments with more thinning and various air pressures and post my results here.
     
  11. N4521U

    N4521U Well-Known Member

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    Having done signpainting, signwriting, for years I used enamels, lead based in the old days......

    Thinner of choice for these enamels
    was Minerals Spirits, or Turpentine under NORMAL conditions. Warm days and not too windy if outside.

    COLD conditions, winter time or cold concrete walls on top of the thinner was added only DROPS of Lacquer thinner to a 3oz quantity of paint! This helped the paint Set before it started running down the vertical surface. NEVER used lacquer thinner as the primary thinner for enamels, not ever.

    NEVER mix paint types!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never apply lacquer over enamel, unless the old piano crackle finish is what you are after, this Will happen. Just ask any hot rodder who has had lacquer applied over his precious enamel painted street rod.

    You can use lacquer thinner for Cleaning an airbrush. Just like using denatured alcohol for clean-up from acrylics airbrush or bristled brush.

    In fact after cleaning my brushes I swipe the brush over a Bar of soap, shape the bristles with my fingers and let it dry. This way it keeps it's shape. Just wash out in alcohol before using.
     
  12. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

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    Bill, that makes a lot od sense. Vapor pressure is temperature dependent and so is the speed of the chemical reactions that set the paint. So as temps drop you want a more volatile solvent
     
  13. N4521U

    N4521U Well-Known Member

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    Mike, as a side note, I used a product made by Flood, Penetrol, to thin my paint for the most part. I don't think you could get this material thru an airbrush tho. It made the paint workable. It acted a bit like a retarder in drying time. We thought it was like the Base of the paint rather than something that would Thin the paint. If you have ever wondered how one could get that Black paint, streakless finish on wood? Use Penetrol instead of thinner for enamels on woodwork. It allows the paint to relax before setting. All the bristle mark just bl00dy disappear! It's like a magic trick. So next time you are painting interior or exterior finishes, try Penetrol to extend the paint.

    Just sayin.
     
  14. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

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    Bill, from what I can determine it is basically oil paint without the pigment. Linseed oil (from flax seeds, a drying oil since it polymerizes), mineral spirits (synthetic turpentine), and naptha (from petroleum distilation, a solvent very similiar to gasoline). In the "good olde days" one purchased pigment, linseed oil, and turpentine and mixed your own paint. Linseed oil has long been used to finish wood, like gun stocks as it soaks into the wood producing a smooth shiny finish. The Englishers have long used it on cricket bats and pool cues
     
  15. N4521U

    N4521U Well-Known Member

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    In the old old days,
    Sign painters had a 50 pond bag of white lead powder under the bench for mixing there own paints.
    House paint whiting was linseed oil and white lead!
     
  16. prem895

    prem895 Active Member

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    Try and get away with that today. I miss the good old days of benzine and One Shot brand paint with lead.
     
  17. N4521U

    N4521U Well-Known Member

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    The smell of One Shot...................
     
  18. prem895

    prem895 Active Member

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    Intoxicating
     
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