Bandit to starboard!

[GrauGeist]

Yes! Vibration, buffeting, fear etc...

great job by the photog... this is a perfect example of "catching a moment".

I wonder what his shutter speed was...

The 410 sure looks vulnerable presenting his belly like that...
I'd like to know what the relative speed of the 410 was... cruising speed of a B17 - attack speed of a 410 = ?

A level inbound attack by the 410 would have been death, so chances are he came in from above and committed slashing attacks while trying to exploit the "blind spots" on the B-17 and was most likely part of a team that hit in unison to keep the gunners off balance.

Their max speed was about 388 mph.

 

[wheelsup_cavu]

pretty clear shot all right the guys just sitting there and not even moving...

Its a pretty classic shot been replicated in a number of books, must have been one in a million photos too with the rate that 410 would have been going, it hardly would have been strolling though a formation of B17s twirling a cane

Theres a good one of a 'Nick' that dived head on at a B29 and has missed ramming it by feet

I think this is the one.

Wheelsup

 

[snafud1]

Those are cool pics!

 

[Njaco]

Heres another I just found.

 

[GrauGeist]

Cool photo, NJ!

Man, that's the exact place a '17 driver does NOT want a Spit to be!

 

[Airframes]

That's a quite oftenl used pic of the Spit and Dornier, normally said to be a propaganda shot with a captured Spit. The position of the wing roundels suggest it is a propaganda shot, and it could possibly have even been a montage.

 

[Sweb]

You never know anything truthful about photos such as these. The 17 and 410 is an old picture with an original caption stating the 410 had just lobbed a round through the wing. I think I first saw it in an old Martin Caiden book some years back. For all we know this is the 410's wingman and the photographer just got his act together in time to catch him. But, more than likely is was a shot to capture the damaged wing and the 410 flew into the viewfinder unbeknownst to the photographer when the shutter opened. Crap happened fast up there.

About gunners...misnomer from the pilot reunions I attended. One fellow said of his gunners they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from inside it. Still shots of air-to-air events distort the quickness of them with regard to human reaction times, shooting environment, stability of the aircraft and the experience of the gunners. It wasn't quite like an arcade up there.

 

[GrauGeist]

Well, if that's a propeganda photo, then I have to assume that the Spit is a captured one.

If that's the case, then why would they change the positioning of the roundells, since it would have had them in the first place? And even still, if the aircraft had been over-painted with RLM colors Luftwaffe insignia, they should recall where the roundells were to start with...

 

[Von Frag]

I think this is the one.

Wheelsup

Is it a flaw in the photo or is the tailgunner of the other 29 going to town on that Nick?

 

[GrauGeist]

I don't think that at the angle the B-29 is, at the left of the picture, that he could get a shot off at the Nick, which is closer to the camera. The tail gunner of that B-29 is definately shooting at something, but it's down and away to the right, out of the pic. I lso noticed, when I first saw this photo, that the two B-29s are seriously out of formation.

And I bet those guys in the B-29 at the center of the photo needed to change thier shorts when they got back.

 

[Sweb]

Illusion. The other plane is further away and his tail stinger is trained at a different angle. Guessing, he's probably shooting at another plane that has made its pass. Or, judging from it's course deviation, it's been hit and leaving formation. The trail of smoke could be from damage.

 

[Von Frag]

Illusion. The other plane is further away and his tail stinger is trained at a different angle. Guessing, he's probably shooting at another plane that has made its pass. Or, judging from it's course deviation, it's been hit and leaving formation. The trail of smoke could be from damage.

The rear bombay door on the 29 in the foreground is open. Could be they just finished their bomb run and were making their egress turn.

 

[GrauGeist]

Look at the angle of the B-29 on the left, and then look closely at the B-29 center...it looks as though the B-29 at center is going to pass right under the B-29 at the left...which also look to be slightly banked to port (left).

Something's really going wrong there.

 

[Von Frag]

Look at the angle of the B-29 on the left, and then look closely at the B-29 center...it looks as though the B-29 at center is going to pass right under the B-29 at the left...which also look to be slightly banked to port (left).

Something's really going wrong there.

Absolutely agree with you there. Nothing seems to be coordinated due to the fighter attack and or damage. Was just wondering if the open bombay is a clue to where they were on the run. The second Superfort is all buttoned up. I know they tried to stay coordinated even on egress and wonder if the fighter attack is in the process of busting up the formation.

 

[GrauGeist]

The bomber pilots were usually good at keeping the aircraft squared up, even when being attacked from all sides (with or without flak)...they just gritted thier teeth and drove on through...

Only reason they'd break formation would be extreme circumstances, like flak or fighter damage. In a head-on attack by an enemy fighter, they fought the instinct to evade because there's other bombers in thier direct vicinity.

It would be interesting to know the story behind this photo.

 

[vikingBerserker]

Could have been texting...

 

[Von Frag]

Could have been texting...

 

[Matt308]

The japanese fighter has just made a high side run on the B-29 formation with ramming not out of the ordinary (typical of jap fighter tactics over the homeland during 1945). The upper B-29 has been damaged and is leaving the formation. Note the turrets aimed extremely high (upper) and those pointing low (lower).

I have this same pic in a book of mine.

 

[wheelsup_cavu]

Thanks for the clarification Matt. 8)


Wheelsup

 

[GrauGeist]

Ok, so there was something definately wrong then...thanks for the info, Matt.