Beginner mistakes. Need enamel paint advice.

Whiteyb said:

I need one of these but my hobby shop doesn't carry these for some reason. Also if I go to a hardware store what particular thinner would I use for enamel paint? There are many types.. so confusing

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I got mine at Walmarts art section. If you belong to Amazon, they also sell them by the 12 pack. I just use a generic odorless lacquer thinner

vandee said:

Thanks, that's what I thought. I have 2 17ml bottles of Model Color by Vallejo. If it does require thinning for
brushing what do you use? Also is it a soap and water( touch of Dawn in cup of water) clean up. I will give
anything a try rather than spending $$$ every month for the same color. John

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I don't thin Model Color, straight up. For clean-up, I just rinse everything in water, lazy....yes but I've had the same brushes for several years.

The only difference between Model AIR and Model COLOR is the viscosity. Model AIR has a lower viscosity and is meant for AIRBRUSHING though as Geo stated it can be brushed. Model COLOR has a higher viscosity and is meant to be applied with a brush though again as Geo posted with some thinning it can be airbrushed. In essence the two varieties are meant for convenience. I have both varieties and 99% of the time use them as intended. If I'm looking to apply paint to a large area I'll purchase the AIR variety. That way I can just squirt it in my cup and spray. If the paint is intended for a small area/part I'll purchase the COLOR variety such as their 70.865 OILY STEEL.
Personally I can not conceive of a situation wherein a jar of enamel paint becomes unusable after a period of ONE month. Like Geo I have both acrylic and enamel paints that I have had for years that are still usable. Some of the older +5 years or more may need a bit of thinning but are as usable as when they were brand new.
As to the clean-up process, yes water will work but I prefer a stronger solvent action. For brush and Airbrush cleaning I use 92% Isopropyl alcohol and general clean-up with 70% rubbing alcohol. Further, believe it or not, but automotive windshield washer fluid (the blue stuff) is an excellent acrylic paint thinner and cleaning agent. The blue coloring agent does not, IMHO, affect the paint color, even whites.

fubar57 said:

I just use a generic odorless lacquer thinner

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Geo, am I reading this correctly? Lacquer thinner for enamel paints and an odorless lacquer thinner? Did you mean odorless PAINT thinner?

I personally consider these "Odorless" products to be more dangerous than the smelly varieties. The lack of a warning smell can lead to an over exposure.
Sunnyside makes a Pure Odorless Paint Thinner and the MSDS for this product is quite revealing:
The product is a "Synthetic isoparaffinic hydrocarbon" PARAFFINS - are wax-like substances with long chains of single bonded carbon atoms. The bonds are very stable thus there is very little chemical reactivity - the no odor part.
HOWEVER from the MSDS - RESPIRATORY PROTECTION: NIOSH/MSHA approved respirators may be necessary if airborne concentrations are expected to exceed exposure limits. The safe limits are set at 400ppm!!!
and more from the MSDS - EFFECTS OF OVEREXPOSURE - INHALATION: Prolonged inhalation may be harmful. Vapors can cause irritation of the respiratory tract. High concentrations can cause headache, nausea, weakness, lightheadedness, and stupor (CNS depression)
EFFECTS OF OVEREXPOSURE - CHRONIC HAZARDS: Overexposure may cause nervous system damage. Vapors irritating to eyes and respiratory tract. Significant exposure to this chemical may adversely affect people with chronic disease of the central nervous system.

Everyone is of course different and what affects one person may not affect another. I personally prefer to err on the side of caution and avoid any exposure

Mineral spirits/paint thinner are mixtures of aliphatic and alicyclic C7 to C12 hydrocarbons. For cleaning brushes, paint thinner is best since it's half the cost of mineral spirits and basically works the same. Other than the price, the differences between the two solvents are subtle: Both are petroleum products. Both can be used to thin oil-based paints and varnishes and to clean paintbrushes. Paint thinner is mineral spirits, but in a less refined form. It contains other types of solvents, which makes it a lot smellier and more volatile. Mineral spirits are not as stinky. Because it's more refined, it's slightly more effective in smaller quantities than paint thinner.
Turpentine is a fluid obtained by the distillation of resin obtained from live trees, mainly pines. Turpentine is composed of terpenes. The word turpentine derives from the name of a species of tree, the terebinth tree. Mineral turpentine or other petroleum distillates are used to replace turpentine, but they are very different chemically.
Lacquer thinner is the solvent and thinner used with all types of lacquer, including nitrocellulose, CAB-acrylic and catalyzed. It's the most interesting of the finish solvents because it's composed of half-a-dozen or so individual solvents. Solvents from all five of the solvent families are used in lacquer thinners. Toluene, xylene and "high-flash" (meaning fast evaporating) naphtha are from the petroleum-distillate family. The other four families are ketones, esters, glycol ethers and alcohols.
All the individual solvents from the ketone, ester and glycol ether families dissolve lacquer on their own and are called "active" solvents. But they evaporate at different rates, so manufacturers choose among them to make a thinner that evaporates in steps at the speeds they want.
Alcohol doesn't dissolve lacquer on its own, but it does in combination with these other solvents, so it is called a "latent" solvent. One or more of the alcohols is usually added to the mix to reduce cost.
The nature of lacquers is that they can be fully dissolved (meaning the lacquer molecules are separated) and still be too thick to spray without getting severe orange peel. So to further "thin" the lacquer (and also lacquer thinner) without adding expensive dissolving solvents, manufacturers add up to 50% toluene, xylene or high-flash naphtha. These solvents are called "diluents" or "diluting" solvents.
Because the diluting solvents don't dissolve lacquer, they have to evaporate fast enough to be out of the lacquer before all the dissolving solvents have evaporated. Otherwise, the lacquer will come out of solution and appear as white, cotton-like, particles on the dried finish.

Sunnyside's Lacquer Thinner MSDS:
Inhalation Acute Exposure Effects: Vapor harmful. May cause dizziness; headache; watering of eyes; irritation of respiratory tract; weakness; drowsiness; nausea; numbness in fingers, arms and legs; depression of central nervous system; loss of appetite; fatigue; hallucinations; light headedness; visual disturbances; giddiness and intoxication; sleepiness; cough and dyspnea; cold, clammy extremities; diarrhea; vomiting; dilation of pupils; spotted vision. Severe overexposure may cause convulsions; unconsciousness; coma; and death. Intentional misuse of this product by deliberately concentrating and inhaling can be harmful or fatal.
Skin Contact Acute Exposure Effects: May be absorbed through the skin. May cause irritation; numbness in the fingers and arms; drying of skin; and dermatitis. May cause increased severity of symptoms listed under inhalation.
Eye Contact Acute Exposure Effects: This material is an eye irritant. May cause irritation; burns; conjunctivitis of eyes; and corneal ulcerations of the eye. Vapors may irritate eyes.
Ingestion Acute Exposure Effects: Poison. Cannot be made non-poisonous. May be fatal or cause blindness. May cause dizziness; headache; nausea; vomiting; burning sensation in mouth, throat, and stomach; loss of coordination; depression of the central nervous system; narcosis; stupor; gastrointestinal irritation; liver, kidney, and heart damage; diarrhea; loss of appetite; coma and death. May produce symptoms listed under inhalation.
Chronic Exposure Effects: Reports have associated repeated and prolonged overexposure to solvents with neurological and other physiological damage. Prolonged or repeated contact may cause dermatitis. Prolonged skin contact may result in absorption of a harmful amount of this material. May cause conjunctivitis; gastric disturbances; insomnia; dizziness; headache; weakness; fatigue; nausea; heart palpitations; skin irritation; numbness in hands and feet; permanent central nervous system changes; some loss of memory; pancreatic damage; giddiness; visual impairment or blindness; kidney or liver damage; and death. May cause symptoms listed under inhalation.
Target Organs: Central Nervous System, Liver, Kidney, Heart, Stomach, Respiratory System

My error, I was Googling Tamiya lacquer paint at the same time. I have the odorless paint thinner and use it only when I clean up enamel paint brushes which is a rarity. Odorless not for health reasons; I wear a respirator and have a spray booth regardless of paint type. The odorless is for the missus who is 60' away and on another floor.

Total agreement. I personally prefer Mineral Spirits to the less refined Paint Thinner. I use a small old Testors 1/2 oz jar filled with Mineral Spirits to clean enamel brushes on those rare occasions when I brush an enamel paint and an old Tamiya 46ml jar filled with 92% isopropyl alcohol for cleaning brushes used with acrylic paints.
With the airbrush which is ONLY used with acrylic paint, I wash the cup out with running water, then I spray 2-3 cups (airbrush cups that is) of the 92% isopropyl alcohol into an airbrush cleaning pot wash station followed by 1-2 cups airbrush cleaning solution also into the cleaning pot.
At the end of painting I'll remove the nozzle(s) and needle and soak into a container of airbrush cleaning solution

I've got a blue nozzle tip that won't spray. One of my first ventures in airbrushing years ago and probably didn't get it cleaned properly. Would it be worth soaking in mineral spirits over night, taking it apart and giving it a thorough cleaning. The warranty is long over so not to worried about that

Geo if it is metal I'd try a soak in acetone for a day or two and see what that does. That DETTOL antiseptic I've mentioned a few times does an excellent job on old paint both enamel and acrylic and it's fume free and safe on all surfaces including skin. Worth a try and you can always use it on cuts/scrapes/abrasions

It's the Aztek Blue nozzle

Same ones I use. I've sprayed acetone through them briefly for stubborn clogs and they resist the solvent relatively well and I quickly follow with an alcohol spray to get all the acetone out but a soak is OUT. Windex with ammonia works well and you can clean your windows with it. Simple Green is an option as well. An excellent dedicated airbrush cleaning solution called CREATEX is what I use. I use an old Tamiya 46ml bottle, fill it half way and drop the entire nozzle in and cap the bottle. I'll leave it that way for days/weeks taking it out once in a while to see if it is freeing up. If you can pull out the needle and spring drop them and the nozzle in. The Createx is water based and fume free. I get mine at HOBBY LOBBY because they run a once a month coupon for 40% off one item. When I'm in town I'll stop in a pick up a bottle every month.
And again DETTOL antiseptic works wonders use it as above as a soak

So, I should use paint thinner/ mineral spirits? Sorry guys I'm a bit stupid and there is so much information being posted. I'm just using this for brush painting testors enamel paint. Thanks!

Yea, we kinda hijacked your thread....apologies. If you are going to spray enamels, I would go with your thinner. It should say on the bottle what the paint/thinner ratios are and then you can play with that as you see fit. ModelMaster enamel seems to be a different beast. They recommend you use their Universal Enamel Thinner. When in doubt, use the same thinner as the paint you are using, get used to it and then experiment with other thinners if you wish

Again total agreement paint chemistry and nomenclature is so highly variable today that ANY thinning of stock paint IMHO has to be done with the manufactures thinner or you risk destroying the paint. It's a shame because for the tiny amount that you receive they charge 10 times or more what the actual solvents cost.
NOW brush cleaning is another story, Paint thinner is less highly refined and a bit cheaper. Mineral Spirits are more highly refined and cost a bit more but IMHO They work better. A matter of personal preference

If you are going to go with acrylics, I found this a long time ago; check marks are the ones I've tried and the ratios worked for me

So many worrrrrrrds....

On the subject of oil based paint I have made a "blister hanger" with old baked bean tins and put five lines of ultra violet led strip so that I can put it over my newly painted model trucks and leave it under the ultra viole light over night, or at least 8 hrs. This will not only dry the paint but harden it so that you can sand down without the paint tearing out, the led kit cost under £15.00 and is worth every penny!! So if you do make a mess of it it is easy to rectify as for the paint I use house paint and mix the colour I want and you can use testers, hope that is useful to everyone.

Tay said:

five lines of ultra violet led strip so that I can put it over my newly painted model trucks and leave it under the ultra viole light over night, or at least 8 hrs. This will not only dry the paint but harden I use house paint and mix the colour I want and you can use testers,.

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Tay, Initially let me say that I truly admire you inventiveness in constructing your bean can cure/drying booth. That being said....YIKES!!!

Let start with the UV aspect of your booth: Ultraviolet light is commonly categorized as being between the wavelengths of 100 nm and 400 nm. These wavelengths are shorter than what human vision is capable of seeing - by definition, ultraviolet is invisible.
That dark purple light you see from other so called "UV LED lights" are not emitting true UV - typically they use nUV (near ultraviolet) dies at approximately 405 nm.
We can certainly see the effects of ultraviolet light, but real UV light is invisible to the human eye.
There are many applications of ultraviolet light, particularly in the UV-A region, which is commonly accepted to be between the wavelengths of 315 to 400 nm. These applications are dependent upon the UV light source providing sufficient energy in this range, and are typically designed with maximum efficiency in the center of this range, approximately 360 nm.
Many UV LED products on the market today will advertise violet light centered at 405 nm as "ultraviolet" - but in reality, this is on the borderline between UV-A and visible, violet light. Only a small percentage of that light energy is emitted as useful ultraviolet radiation. So without more data on the actual LED strips that you are employing I can't really comment on the amount and energy of the UV in your construction
8 HOURS - UV curing occurs in seconds or perhaps a minute at most. Nail Polish (gel) come to mind immediately. once applied to the nails the hand is placed in a hooded device lined with UV LEDs or UV emitting lamps. The lamps used in these manicures emit UVA rays. Although these rays don't burn the skin like UVB rays they do penetrate the skin and damage DNA and collagen. Some people believe that LED curing lamps provide a safer option, but this is a misconception, as these lamps also emit UVA light. Although curing lamps are used for just a short period of time during a gel manicure, research indicates that the UV rays emitted by those lamps are four times stronger than the sun's UV rays.
HOUSE PAINT - This is a new one for me. House-type paints are either acrylic (water) or enamel (oil) based though with today's paint chemistry the lines are getting very blurred. But one factor remains constant and that is, as EXTERIOR paints they are especially formulated to RESIST UV radiation. If they CURED via UV radiation how would you ever be able to apply them to a house? Your HOUSE-painted trucks are curing NOT because of UV but because of the heat generated by your UV LED strips in a small confined space.
TESTORS PAINTS - Testors make enamels, acrylics and Lacquers NONE of them would respond well to UV radiation. I don't think you understand what the nail UV lamps are for and how nail varnish differs from paint. UV light will only work if the paint contains a monomer that polymerizes during drying and is of a type that will absorb UV light and the absorption of UV speeds the polymerization and the UV light doesn't degrade the pigments used in the paint.
Model paint is not like the gel polishes used in modern nail varnishes that contain methacrylate. The latter does not dry until it is cured under an ultraviolet or ultraviolet LED lamp. Paints dry by evaporation of the solvent involved be it water, oil or spirit. UV light is not a replacement for heat drying. You run a real risk of zapping your paint pigments and initiating color changes that otherwise would take years to appear.