Best 50s/60s fighter?

Glider · Jan 31, 2007

Not a lot of difference apart from an early radar between the III and the V and aerodynamically, none worth mentioning.

The results would have been the same.

FLYBOYJ · Jan 31, 2007

Thumper said:
1 C-130 Hercules
1 Mirage III
9 Daggers
1 Canberra
1 Pucara
6 A-4 Skyhawks

XZ453 Sea Harrier FRS1
31 Jan 80 1 SHARED over Falklands (Mirage III by Lt. S. Thomas, 801 NAS, HMS Invincible)

may have mauled the Mirage V...but not the 111

What do you think a Dagger is? A Mirage V, and the only difference between the III and the V was the nose and the lack of some all-weather equipment.

Thumper · Jan 31, 2007

and the hurricane short down more aircraft than the spitfire during BoB
still think the spit is a better aircraft.

and still think the 111 is the better aircraft.

FLYBOYJ · Jan 31, 2007

Thumper said:
and the hurricane short down more aircraft than the spitfire during BoB
still think the spit is a better aircraft.

and still think the 111 is the better aircraft.

Than the Harrier? It was a generation behind in avionics and performance. Although training had a lot to do with it, its performance over the Falklands showed it limitations.

The Hurricane shot down more aircraft than the Spit in the BoB because of it's mission, it's that simple. You're comparing apples and oranges. The Mirage III was a great aircraft in its day but it was easily eclipsed by other western and soviet aircraft, one of the reasons the IAF acquired F-15s.

Lt. Mereel · Jan 31, 2007

hmmm, best fighters, maybe the F-4 Phantom, and maybe the Mig-21.

Glider · Jan 31, 2007

Thumper said:
and the hurricane short down more aircraft than the spitfire during BoB
still think the spit is a better aircraft.

and still think the 111 is the better aircraft.

Thumper
Can I suggest that instead of making a simple statement, you explain why you came to that conclusion, then we can discuss the merits and learn.

For myself I believe the only advantage the Mirage had over the Harrier was its speed with the afterburner on which is a one shot advantage. Also in the conditions in the South Atlantic was amost usless as the Mirage/Dagger normally carried bombs limiting its speed.

renrich · Feb 25, 2007

The A4 was conceived in 1951 and was operational in 1956 so don't know if it would be considered contemporaneous in this discussion but I would have to give it serious consideration. It hasn't been too many years since it was a serious aggresor A/C at the Air Force and Navy fighter weapons school. It also has a fine combat record.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Feb 26, 2007

Just my opinion but I think the A-4 was a better attack aircraft than a fighter itself.

FLYBOYJ · Feb 26, 2007

I think during Vietnam an A-4 shot down one Mig - with a Zuni rocket!

Glider · Feb 26, 2007

Wasn't his lucky day (the Mig pilot)

davparlr · Feb 26, 2007

The A-4 was tough little bird, but was not designed for the fighter job. While it was used at top gun and played an effective roll, it was most likely with the upgraded engines not available in the 50s. Those engines made it a hot rod (used by the Blue Angels).

nosredna · Feb 28, 2007

I like the mig the best myself. Its a cool plane all around

Matt308 · Feb 28, 2007

davparlr said:
The A-4 was tough little bird, but was not designed for the fighter job. While it was used at top gun and played an effective roll, it was most likely with the upgraded engines not available in the 50s. Those engines made it a hot rod (used by the Blue Angels).

Davparlr, you have info on that? Didn't realize they were not original equipment.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Mar 1, 2007

nosredna said:
I like the mig the best myself. Its a cool plane all around

You do know there were more than one type of Mig right? So which one are you talking about

davparlr · Mar 1, 2007

Matt308 said:
Davparlr, you have info on that? Didn't realize they were not original equipment.

The A-4 went through many engine upgrades. The earlier C model had 7,700 lbs thrust. The A4F and E were used as aggressors. The A4E had a thrust of 8,400 but some were upgraded to the bigger A4F engine. The A4F had a thrust of 9,300 lbs. The A4M was a big jump with engine thrust of 11,200 lbs but I saw no references for its use as an aggressor. The Blue Angels flew A4Fs upgraded with the A4M engine. This was indeed a hot rod.

str8jax · Mar 1, 2007

The looks of the mig 17 are to say the least cool! But i would pick the f86 out of that group. The mig to sabre kill ratio speaks loudly to the sabres prowess. The topic of the 6 .50s to cannons doesnt matter much going fighter to fighter. The mig had I believe one 37mm and 2 27mm cannons (correct me if im wrong)

FLYBOYJ · Mar 1, 2007

the F-86s in Korea used incendary rounds. Although not packing a punch like a cannon round, they did a great job of burning when they hit home...

zebraa51 · Mar 1, 2007

as far as the props goes the P-51 was still the Best, But inn The 50`s the best Jet Hands Down was the North American Aviation F-86 was the Best The F-100 we`ll it was faster and the F-102,F-104, F-105 F-106`s were all faster than the F-86 But they Never never achived the Overall Success Like the F-86 Enjoyed........ The F-100 Came Close oweing Because of the The United States Thunderbirds which made the F-100 a Legend inn the minds and hearts of millions during the late 50`s and thru. 60`s and even into the early 70`s

Matt308 · Mar 10, 2007

davparlr said:
The A-4 went through many engine upgrades. The earlier C model had 7,700 lbs thrust. The A4F and E were used as aggressors. The A4E had a thrust of 8,400 but some were upgraded to the bigger A4F engine. The A4F had a thrust of 9,300 lbs. The A4M was a big jump with engine thrust of 11,200 lbs but I saw no references for its use as an aggressor. The Blue Angels flew A4Fs upgraded with the A4M engine. This was indeed a hot rod.

Wow! Guess I never paid attention. I had known that the engine had been slowly uprated, but never looked close enough to realize the thrust to weight ratio was way up there when clean. No wonder they were used as aggressors.

Jackson · Mar 10, 2007

Maiden flight 25 May 1953

Source: Knaack[1]

The first operational aircraft in United States Air Force inventory capable of exceeding the speed of sound in level flight.
On 29 October 1953, the first YF-100A prototype set a world speed record of 755.149 mph (656.207 knots, 1,215.295 km/h) at low altitude.
On 20 August 1955, an F-100C set the first supersonic world speed record of 822.135 mph (714.416 knots, 1,232.098 km/h).
On 4 September 1955, an F-100C won the Bendix Trophy, covering 2,235 miles (2,020 nm, 3,745 km) at an average speed of 610.726 mph (530.706 knots, 982.868 km/h).
On 26 December 1956, two F-100Ds became the first-ever aircraft to successfully perform buddy refueling.
On 13 May 1957, three F-100Cs set a new world distance record for single-engine aircraft by covering the 6,710 mile (5,835 nm, 10,805 km) distance from London to Los Angeles in 14 hours and 4 minutes. The flight was accomplished using inflight refueling.
On 7 August 1959, two F-100Fs became the first-ever jet fighters to fly over the North Pole.
USAF Colonel George E. "Bud" Day, Medal of Honor recipient (for actions in the Vietnam War) and USA's most highly decorated soldier since General Douglas MacArthur, flew F-100s.
The U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds operated the F-100C from 1956 until 1964. After briefly converting to the F-105 Thunderchief, the team flew F-100Ds from July 1964 until November 1968, before converting to the F-4E Phantom II.
On 04 April 1965 an F-100 Supersabre piloted by USAF Capt. Donald Kilgus shot down one of the first enemy jets of the Vietnam War,a Mig-17, using cannon fire.

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