Best Aircraft in Many Different Roles Part II

[Concorde247]

Wer'e back to the highball missions again (the Small bouncing bomb for anti shipping).

I dont think that the P38 could have carried and used one of those!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Where can you find that says the P-38 could not be modified to carry one. If it could carry 2 torpedos, bombs, radar and even passengers I am sure it could carry one of those too.

 

[Concorde247]

I'm not talking about it as a weight issue, the P-38 could certainly handle that, I'm thinking more along the lines of a carrying and method of release. They would have to be pretty close to the centreline or "pilots pod" as i call it. and closer to the C of G. to be able to carry two of these bombs, and provide the backspin before release. If Theyre put further out along towards the wings the more the vibration when the backspin starts. and bear in mind that the mossie carried TWO of them. Below is a brief description of the bomb itself. that i found on the internet.

Highball 'Bouncing Bomb'
This spherical bomb was designed by the brilliant Dr. Barnes Wallis to be utilized against ships. Weighing 1,280 lb (580kg) and packed with 600 lb (272 kg) of explosive two Highballs could be carried by a Mosquito fighter-bomber. Prior to release the bomb was imparted with a backward spin of 700-900 revolutions per minute. Dropped at high speed 360 mph (580km/h) and low altitude 60 ft (18.2m) the Highball would skip across the water toward the target.
Although intended to be used against the battleship Tirpitz this did not come to pass mainly because the ship stayed in ports beyond the range of Mosquitos based in Britain. Focus shifted to possible use in the Far East and a number of Mosquitos were modified for use on escort/jeep carriers. Despite considerable training the weapon was not used in combat.

 

[wmaxt]

I'm not talking about it as a weight issue, the P-38 could certainly handle that, I'm thinking more along the lines of a carrying and method of release. They would have to be pretty close to the centreline or "pilots pod" as i call it. and closer to the C of G. to be able to carry two of these bombs, and provide the backspin before release. If Theyre put further out along towards the wings the more the vibration when the backspin starts. and bear in mind that the mossie carried TWO of them. Below is a brief description of the bomb itself. that i found on the internet.

Highball 'Bouncing Bomb'
This spherical bomb was designed by the brilliant Dr. Barnes Wallis to be utilized against ships. Weighing 1,280 lb (580kg) and packed with 600 lb (272 kg) of explosive two Highballs could be carried by a Mosquito fighter-bomber. Prior to release the bomb was imparted with a backward spin of 700-900 revolutions per minute. Dropped at high speed 360 mph (580km/h) and low altitude 60 ft (18.2m) the Highball would skip across the water toward the target.
Although intended to be used against the battleship Tirpitz this did not come to pass mainly because the ship stayed in ports beyond the range of Mosquitos based in Britain. Focus shifted to possible use in the Far East and a number of Mosquitos were modified for use on escort/jeep carriers. Despite considerable training the weapon was not used in combat.

The P-38 carried it's main payload between the gondola and the booms and when neccessary was able to carry off balance loads that way. Also it was able to carry 1 drop tank and 1 bomb to extend range. It was quite capable of carring anything a Mossie could.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Ah, I wasnt aware the P-38 could carry off balance loads, this changes matters 8)

 

[wmaxt]

Ah, I wasnt aware the P-38 could carry off balance loads, this changes matters 8)

They did many times but by deffinition anything between the engines is in the center of the plane. When testing the combinations P-38s carried 1 torpedo with No, 1 x 165gal and 1 x 300 gal drop tanks. In Europe it was common to carry a 165gal tank(no 300gal tanks in the ETO) and a 2,000lbs bomb.

The lack of 300gal tanks in the ETO is why people sometimes think the P-51 had more range. When it arrived with drop tanks it had a little more range. One comment (paraphrased by me) by Bud Anderson was that if the P-51 didn't exist P-38s would have gotten more fuel, (which they did, leading edge and 300gal drop tanks: my added comment), and done the job or a new plane would have been designed.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I'm not talking about it as a weight issue, the P-38 could certainly handle that, I'm thinking more along the lines of a carrying and method of release. They would have to be pretty close to the centreline or "pilots pod" as i call it. and closer to the C of G. to be able to carry two of these bombs, and provide the backspin before release. If Theyre put further out along towards the wings the more the vibration when the backspin starts. and bear in mind that the mossie carried TWO of them. Below is a brief description of the bomb itself. that i found on the internet.

Highball 'Bouncing Bomb'
This spherical bomb was designed by the brilliant Dr. Barnes Wallis to be utilized against ships. Weighing 1,280 lb (580kg) and packed with 600 lb (272 kg) of explosive two Highballs could be carried by a Mosquito fighter-bomber. Prior to release the bomb was imparted with a backward spin of 700-900 revolutions per minute. Dropped at high speed 360 mph (580km/h) and low altitude 60 ft (18.2m) the Highball would skip across the water toward the target.
Although intended to be used against the battleship Tirpitz this did not come to pass mainly because the ship stayed in ports beyond the range of Mosquitos based in Britain. Focus shifted to possible use in the Far East and a number of Mosquitos were modified for use on escort/jeep carriers. Despite considerable training the weapon was not used in combat.

All I am trying to say is that there was nothing that the Mossie could do that the P-38 could not do or atleast be modified to do so.

 

[Concorde247]

fair enough!

The US did try the highball project. there was a documentary program on TV a long while ago about the dams raid. It had some footage of either an A26, or a B25 I can't remember which now, that dropped a highball on test
Unfortunately, the bomb hit a wave, pitched up and smashed into the aircraft that dropped it. the aircraft plunged straight into the sea, due to the height and speed, all on board perished. I'll try nand see if i can dig out the video that i recorded it on to see what aircraft was actually used.

The Tv prog also showed a photo of the mayor of one of the towns standing next to an unexploded Upkeep bomb from a Lanc that had been shot down on its way to the dams and hadnt exploded - He thought it was a big oil tank!

The Germans took it apart and drew up full technical drawings within a matter of days!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Interesting

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but useless as the weapon was never used again...........

and seriously?? you actually think the P-38 could take 2 highball with the range to use it in the anti-shipping role?? they're big mines and need large brackets,the air resistance would be huge if the bombs were in no way concealed, there's no way in hell you're gonna get both under the gondala.............

 

[cheddar cheese]

One on the left of the gondola, one on the right...Couple of droptanks as well...Use the droop snoots with P-38L escort, it will work fine.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

what was the distance between engine and gondala?? and we're talking about one single mossie, no escort was mentioned, one droop snoot (sorry how many were made??) would get torn apart............

and how do you intend on overcoming the huge air resistance??

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

One on the left of the gondola, one on the right...Couple of droptanks as well...Use the droop snoots with P-38L escort, it will work fine.

I agree and with simple modicfications to the airframe which has been proven can be done, would account for the drag that it would cause. Yes this would probably cause a reduction in performance but it still could be done.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Yep. I think about 1000 droop snoots were made. But once the highball was dropped it would just become a normal fighter, and heck, the P-38 was a far superior fighter to the Mossie.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

why fight in a mossie when you can just run away............

 

[cheddar cheese]

Becuase running away is for cowards with no confidence in their plane. A Dora or a late model 109 could catch a Mossie easy anyway.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

so you would rather run stay and fight (in an un-armed droop snoot??) when you know you've completed your mission, you'd have nothing to gain from staying and fighting but you stand a chance of getting killed??

and doras and -109s could easily shoot down a P-38..........

 

[cheddar cheese]

Unless it dived or climbled rapidly. Anywho, Id rather be fighting Doras and 109's with a P-38 than a Mossie. Hey, it doesnt have to be a droop snoot. The only thing that differs in is having a glazed nose and a bomb aimer. I could use a regular P-38L-5-LO to drop the bombs, waste a few germans and then fly home...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

so how do you intend on aiming them yourself??

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Again my friend modifications would be made. Do you think the Mossie was able to do it without modifications?