Best Attack Chopper

[Wildcat]

Well we use the Tigre down here in Oz, I don't know how well it compares to other attack choppers (helo's ain't my thing), but was chosen over the Apache, Supercobra, Rooivoik and blackhawk gunship varient (?). Here is some pics I took at an airshow last year.

 

[Henk]

It looks very small.

 

[Marcel]

Well we use the Tigre down here in Oz, I don't know how well it compares to other attack choppers (helo's ain't my thing), but was chosen over the Apache, Supercobra, Rooivoik and blackhawk gunship varient (?). Here is some pics I took at an airshow last year.

The NL turned it down in favour of the longbow, don't recall the reasoning behind it, tho. Last week, to Apaches were flying circles over our greenhouse, an impreesive sight and sound, luckily there were no powerlines in the vicinity

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Rooivalk.

No explanation needed.

No an explanation would be nice.

Well we use the Tigre down here in Oz, I don't know how well it compares to other attack choppers (helo's ain't my thing), but was chosen over the Apache, Supercobra, Rooivoik and blackhawk gunship varient (?). Here is some pics I took at an airshow last year.

I would take an Apache over the Tiger any day. Mostly because of the design. The Tiger has a very big profile. You want a small profile for an attack helicopter.

 

[Soren]

The Tiger is faster though.. the Apache is pretty slow, I remember that when flying with Chinooks the Apache pilots would often call in and request that they slow down cause they couldn't keep up. Sure puts a smile on a Chinook pilot's face

 

[Matt308]

Yeah but Chinooks are faster than virtually all other helicopters, so that's not saying much.

 

[Soren]

The Chinook is pretty fast when lightly loaded, some 300 + km/h.

Just found out that the Tiger Apache re just as fast as each other btw. I'd take the Apache as-well then..

 

[Henk]

No an explanation would be nice.

The Rooivalk has been tested in the very harsh African weather and terrain conditions to make it a really great and effective combat helicopter and also does not need a lot of people and equipment to be carried around to keep her flying and can be used for reconnaissance, heliborne escort, close air support, deep penetration and anti-armour.

It can carry a wide range of weapons that makes it a weapon that can make your day a bad day. The Rooivalk has great handling as well to get her out of those difficult situations.

The stats is also great.

General:

* Crew: 2 (pilot weapon systems officer)
* Length: 18,73 m (main rotor to tail rotor); 16.39 m fuselage ()
* Rotor diameter: 15.58 m ()
* Height: 5.19 m ()
* Empty weight: 5,190 kg ()
* Max takeoff weight: 8,750 kg (19,290 lb)

* Internal fuel capacity: 1,469 kg)

* Powerplant: 2× Turbomeca Makila 1K2 turboshafts, 1,716 kW (sea-level ISA) () each

Performance:

* Maximum speed: 309 km/h (193 mph)
* Range: 700 km combat; 1,130 km ferry (440 mi / 700 mi)
* Service ceiling 6,000 m (20,000 ft)
* Rate of climb: 13.3 m/s (2,105 ft/min)
* Disc loading: lb/ft² (kg/m²)
* Power/mass: hp/lb (kW/kg)

Armament:

* 1 x F2 20 mm cannon, 700 rounds
* 8 or 16 x Mokopa ZT-6 long-range anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM),
* 4 x MBDA Mistral air-to-air missiles,
* 36 or 72 x 70 mm folding fin aerial rockets (FFAR)

Yes it is bigger than the Apache, but she can make the enemy wish they did not run into her.

The only thing that kept her behind was her price tag, but you do get what you pay for.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The Tiger is faster though.. the Apache is pretty slow, I remember that when flying with Chinooks the Apache pilots would often call in and request that they slow down cause they couldn't keep up. Sure puts a smile on a Chinook pilot's face

Actually no Soren. The Apache is not the fastest helicopter but it is certainly not slow and is infact faster than the Tiger.

The AH-64D Longbow has a max speed of 158 knots the Eurocopter Tiger has a max speed of 151 knots.

EDIT: JUST SAW YOUR OTHER POST SOREN WHERE YOU SAW THAT THE SPEEDS WERE ABOUT THE SAME.

The only advantage the Tiger has is range.

Speed is not the main advantage that the Apache has over a Tiger anyhow. Again it comes down to profile and showing yourself.

The Longbow only has to show its mast. It finds its targets while it is hidden, rises fires off its missiles and forgets. The Tiger (except for newer varient called the UH Tiger that has been built for the German Bundeswehr) has to show itself since its to find its targets since its sights were mounted in the nose of the aircraft.

The Apache still holds the advantage.

The Rooivalk has been tested in the very harsh African weather and terrain conditions to make it a really great and effective combat helicopter and also does not need a lot of people and equipment to be carried around to keep her flying and can be used for reconnaissance, heliborne escort, close air support, deep penetration and anti-armour.

It can carry a wide range of weapons that makes it a weapon that can make your day a bad day. The Rooivalk has great handling as well to get her out of those difficult situations.

You just described a Apache Longbow which still has the advantage of having mast mounted radom so that it can find its targets concealed and then fire and forget.

The Rooivalk does not have that capability as of yet.

Sorry guys! As a Rotory Wing guy I can talk for hours on Helos!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I remember this article a while ago - I think the Rooivalk is South Africa's "Arrow." At least they built a few....
What went wrong with the Rooivalk

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I have heard the same thing Joe. The Rooivalk is still to this day not fully mission capable.

 

[Henk]

Yes, Adler it is very sad that the Rooivalk still has not been fully operational, because the ANC government kept it back and thus Denel could not make it what it really is.

The Rooivalk has mast mounted capability, but like I said it is being kept back by the Government. I saw the stuff Denel developed for the Rooivalk and it is amazing what they did with the Helmets of the pilots. I will find it ad give you the specs of them, I do not know it out of my head.

During the Apartheid era the Military advanced a lot and they build APC vechiles that is being used by the US in Iraq and Afghanistan, but since the ANC took over everything they cut so much out of the Military budget that it is hair raising.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I saw the stuff Denel developed for the Rooivalk and it is amazing what they did with the Helmets of the pilots. I will find it ad give you the specs of them, I do not know it out of my head.

That technology is nothing new. The Helmet sights have been in use by the Apache since the 1980s.

 

[Henk]

That technology is nothing new. The Helmet sights have been in use by the Apache since the 1980s.

I know, but they did a lot of other stuff also, I am now searching my @ss off to find the info about it.

 

[SoD Stitch]

The Tiger is faster though.. the Apache is pretty slow, I remember that when flying with Chinooks the Apache pilots would often call in and request that they slow down cause they couldn't keep up. Sure puts a smile on a Chinook pilot's face

But speed doesn't matter all that much for a good attack helicopter; what matters more is the avionics and overall capabilities (armament, fuel, etc.). The Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne is (was?) the fastest attack helicopter in history, but all that speed didn't make up for the fact that it was cancelled by the Army in 1972.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

But speed doesn't matter all that much for a good attack helicopter; what matters more is the avionics and overall capabilities (armament, fuel, etc.). The Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne is (was?) the fastest attack helicopter in history, but all that speed didn't make up for the fact that it was cancelled by the Army in 1972.

The Cheyenne was cancelled because it was expensive and complex - Bell offered limited parts interchangeability between the Cobra and the Huey.

It probably could of competed with the Apache if Lockheed wanted to resurrect the project. By that time "CALAC" had another program called "Have Blue" that was the focus of their attention.

BTW one of my old Lockheed bosses was one the the Cheyenne test pilots...

 

[SoD Stitch]

The Cheyenne was cancelled because it was expensive and complex - Bell offered limited parts interchangeability between the Cobra and the Huey.

It probably could of competed with the Apache if Lockheed wanted to resurrect the project. By that time "CALAC" had another program called "Have Blue" that was the focus of their attention.

BTW one of my old Lockheed bosses was one the the Cheyenne test pilots...

Sweet! Did he ever talk about the Cheyenne program?

I'm assuming when you say "Have Blue" you're talking about the Lockheed Skunk Works project for a low-observables fighter back in the early '80's.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Sweet! Did he ever talk about the Cheyenne program?

Yes he did - he said it was the best combat helicopter of its day - the problem was the Army wanted a "shotgun." Lockheed gave them a howitzer.

I'm assuming when you say "Have Blue" you're talking about the Lockheed Skunk Works project for a low-observables fighter back in the early '80's.

Yes - I've heard rumors that Lockheed was asked to compete under the same solicitation that brought about the Apache - they declined.

 

[Henk]

The Cheyenne looked liked very advanced chopper. Would love to see one up close.

 

[plan_D]

The AH-56 is reported to have a top speed of 220 knots, but is this true ? I was always under the impression that the modified Westland ZB500 G-Lynx still held the world record at 217.5 knots.