Best Bomber Killing Aircraft......

[Erich]

yes like many in the defnce of the Reich. A younf flugzeugfuhrer of JG 301 KIA on the same day as my cousin Siegfried Baer and from the same Geschwader. this pics as others will be in a future book on JG 301.....

I share these with you, this of Gabler and the enxt pic will be of my cousin, note the difference in materials. both cross's and both remembered .........

 

[Erich]

my cousins grave site marker in an area of more modern stone

 

[Erich]

getting back to the baisc coverage of the SturmFw's. Here is a pic of pilot Werner Dehr in front of one of the Bf 109G's of III./JG 4 during the fall of 44. some are equipped with the underwing 2cm waffen pods and others are not.

 

[lesofprimus]

Werent those -109's with the 151/20 pods called Kanonenbootes with the Rustsatz-6 gondolas????

 

[Erich]

yes cannon-boats but not sure about the Rust. though.....

this version ws the common bomber killer until the heavier SturmFw types took over in JG 1 and 11 in the fal/winter of 43-44. The were on the A-7 Fw 190 and called the Fw 190A-7/MK. Unarmored but did have outboard 3cm weapons along with the two 2cm and upper mg 131's over the cowling

 

[lesofprimus]

I double checked and it is R-6.....

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I feel like a missed a lot of the convo, my internet was down for a couple of days over here.

Well from what I can tell the leading scorer of Heavy Bombers was:
Georg-Peter Eder
With atleast 36 bomber kills.

Georg-Peter "Schorsch" Eder was born on 8 March 1921 at Oberdachstetten. In October 1938 he joined the Luftwaffe. At the beginning of April 1939 he enrolled in the aviation academy at Berlin-Gatow. A year later he sat a pilot examination and was sent to aviation school at Werneuchen. He flew his first combat mission with 1./JG 51 on 1 September 1940. He flew with this unit throughout the Battle of Britain but did not gain a victory. In May 1941 he joined 4./JG 51 and with this unit shot down his first aircraft, a RAF Spitfire fighter, on 7 May. Eder marked his participation in the commencement of the campaign on the Eastern Front by destroying two Russian aircraft on 22 June 1941. On 24 July 1941, he was shot down and wounded. On 22 August, Eder collided with a Ju 52 transport aircraft on the ground at Ponjatowska in his Bf 109 F-2 (W.Nr. 9184). He suffered a fracture at the base of the skull and was forced into hospital. He had recorded 10 victories at this time. On recovery from his injuries, Eder was sent as a flight instructor to Jagdfliegerschule 2 based at Zerbst arriving there on 1 November 1941. Eder was transferred to 7./JG 2 based in France on 1 November 1942. With this unit he participated in the growing battle against the American four-engined heavy bombers. With Hauptmann Egon Mayer (102 victories, of which 25 were four-engined bombers, RK-S), also of III./JG 2, Eder developed the strategies to combat the formations of four-engined B-17s and B-24s. Particularly noteworthy was the development of the head-on attack in order to take advantage of the relatively weak defensive fire from that sector of the bombers. In February 1943 Eder was appointed Staffelkapitän of 12./JG 2. On 28 March he downed a B-17, however, was hit engine of his machine and he was wounded when his Bf 109 G-4 (W.Nr. 14 998) somersaulted upon landing at Beaumont. Eder continued to score steadily, destroying his 20th enemy aircraft on 29 May 1943. After shooting down a P-47 and a B-17 Herauschuss on 30 July his victory total reached 31 victories. On 5 September 1943, Eder was transferred as Staffelkapitän of 5./JG 2. He continued to fight against the formations of four-engined bombers and had continued success against these aircraft. On 5 November, Eder was again forced to bail out of his Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 20 733) and was again injured.

In March 1944 Oberleutnant Eder was transferred to 6./JG 1. He baled out of his Fw 190 A-7 (W.Nr. 430 645) "Yellow 4" following aerial combat with an USAAF P-47 fighter near Göttingen on 19 April. On 8 May, he downed a B-24 but he was also hit and had to make an emergency landing in Fw 190 A-8 (WNr 170071) "Yellow 4" at Vechta. On 29 May, after shooting down a B-17, colided his Fw 190 A-8 (W.Nr. 730 386) "red 24" with Siebel during landing in Cottbus but Eder escaped unhurt. By the end of the month of May he had a total of 49 confirmed victories. As the Kommandeur of II./JG1 he fought in the aerial battles over Normandy after the Allied invasion. On 21 June 1944 he recorded his 50th victory and on 24 June received the Ritterkreuz. On 11 August 1944 Eder took command of 6./JG 26. In an attack on allied armour near Dreux on 17 August Eder shot down a Spitfire from very low altitude; it crashed between two M-4 Sherman tanks, destroying them both. Shortly after it he shot down a second Spitfire, which crashed on a third tank, setting it on fire. On 4 September Hauptmann Eder became Gruppenkommandeur of II./JG 26, the day after the unit's previous Kommandeur Hauptmann Emil Lang (173 victories, RK-EL) was killed in action against USAAF Thunderbolts over St Trond, Belgium. In September Hauptmann Eder was transfered to Erprobungskommando 262 (later Kommando Nowotny) where he was appointed Staffelkapitän of 1./Kdo Nowotny.On 19 November, following redesignation of Kommando Nowotny to JG 7, he commanded 9./JG 7 flying the Me 262 jet fighter in combat with considerable success. During the Ardennes offensive, Eder was to prove his efficacy with the Me 262 in the ground-attack role claiming 40 P-47s destroyed on the ground. He was awarded the Eichenlaub (Nr 663) on the 25 November 1944 for 60 victories. On 22 January he was shot down near Parchim by USAAF P-51s and P-38s while preparing to land. He broke both his legs and spent the rest of the war in hospital at Wismar and, later, Bad Weissee where he was captured by US Army troops.
Altogether he flew 572 combat missions of which 150 were with the Me 262. On the Eastern Front he scored 10 victories and on the Western Front 68, of which no less than 36 were four-engined bombers. With the Me 262 he scored at least 24 victories (most of them couldn`t be officially confirmed). He was the leading scorer against the four-engined bombers, although Eder himself was shot down 17 times, baling out 9 times. He was wounded 14 times.
http://www.luftwaffe.cz/eder.html

This does not have much to do with Bomber killers but I found this story interesting in my search for the pilot with the most heavy bomber kills.

The fates of two young German fighter pilots, Eugen Wintergest and Herwig Zuzic are remarkably linked together. During the summer and early autumn of 1941, the former flew as wingman to the latter in the air war over southern Soviet Union, both belonging to 4./JG 77.

Zuzic was credited with 13 victories. Oberfeldwebel Wintergest had a remarkable feat: On 12 August 1941 he had attacked alone a formation of seven SB-3 bombers between Zebrikovo and Odessa, and he shot down all of them. At first this was not beleived by his superiors, so his commander Hauptmann Anton Mader took off to check it, and he found all seven bombers lying in a row. This was Wintergest's 8th to 14th victories. His last, and 20th, victory was achieved over a MiG-3 near Preobrashenko (while escorting He 111s attacking this target) at 17:20 hrs on 23 September 1941.

On 24 September 1941, they were literally linked together over Russian-held territory north of Perekop: The Bf 109 E-7 (W.Nr. 3632, "white 13 + - ") piloted by Oberfeldwebel Eugen Wintergest and the Bf 109 E-4 (W.Nr. 1459) piloted by Leutnant Herwig Zuzic collided in mid-air and had to force-land behind the Russian lines. 10 to 14 days later, Russian aircraft dropped leaflets on the base of II./JG 77. On these leaflets were the picture of Leutnant Zuzic and an appeal to his friends to fly their planes over to the Russian side and desert.

Some months later, both Zuzic and Wintergest were parachuted into Rumania by the Russians to act as spies. Both turned themselves over to German authorities and said that they had fooled the Russians that they had gone over to the Russian side. They were put back in service as fighter pilots, but not on the Eastern Front. In March 1943, Zuzic (promoted to Oberleutnant) was made leader of the new 8./JG 1 in the Home Defense, and Wintergest (promoted to Leutnant) was made leader of 9./JG 1.

On 27 July 1943, Oberleutnant Zuzic shot down a B-17 "Flying Fortress" - his 14th and last victory. On 19 August 1943, Zuzic collided with another Bf 109 G-6. This time, he had run out of luck and was killed. His death hit his friend Wintergest very hard. Wintergest told his friends: "We've lived through so much together, now I think we'll die together".

On 4 September 1943, Wintergest's 9./JG 1 got involved in a very difficult combat with "Spitfires" over Dunkirk. Against only one Spitfire shot down, six Bf 109s were lost - including "yellow 1", piloted by the Staffelkapitän Leutnant Eugen Wintergest. Wintergest tried to get out of his spinning Messerschmitt, but as he finally managed to get out, the altitude was too low so the parachute didn't open. Eugen Wintergest fell to a certain death.
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/zuzwin/zuzwin.htm

 

[Lukas Buringen]

Contribution on Mr. Hagenah.

I know this gentleman personally, because he once upon a time was one of my superiors at the ACC (Area Control Centre) at Frankfurt/Main. After the war he joined the new established ATC unit (BFS) at Rhein-Main Airport first as a controller and later as team supervisor. He retired about 1972, according to the law of the Bundesanstalt fuer Flugsicherung (BFS), which allowed controllers to retire with the age of 53.

I first met him in 1960, when I was transferred from Hamburg Tower to Frankfurt ACC.
Then, in 1970, I became a direct neighbor to him in the northern part of Frankfurt, where he still lives, however a sick man.
He is married and has, as far as I know, a son.

 

[loomaluftwaffe]

an air to air bomber

from LUFTWAFFE FIGHTER AIRCRAFT IN PROFILE

*scanner image is of low quality, tell me if i should post the image of his plane or not*

Messerschmitt Bf109G-1
Flown by Leutnant Heinz Knoke, 5./JG 11, Jever, Germany, April 1943

Heinz Knoke, famous as the man who introduced the air to air bombing of B-17s and well known for some of his post-war memoirs, led the so called boeing klau (boeing grabber) Staffel, 2./JG1 (later 5./JG 11), defending NW Germany against US 4 engined bombers from the onset of the US Bomber offemsive over Germany.

On March 22, 1943, Knoke succeeded in destroying a US Heavy Bomber in the air by dropping a bomb on it. On April 17, the entire Staffel dropped bombs on a B-17 formation over Bremen, where a Focke-Wulf factory is based, this time without success. Defending Kiel 1 month later, on May 14, 3 of his men managed to knock out 3 B-17s by air to air bombing.

Knokeand his men became heavily exploited by German Propaganda in 1943, when there was a desperate need to counterbalance the Daylight bombing raids with....

 

[R988]

I wondered if anyone had tried that tactic, it would take a large amount of skill and/or luck to have much success though.

 

[loomaluftwaffe]

if u read my article, your question should be answered

 

[Twitch]

While this very long thread gets into many aspects of the topic I would agree that the 262 was the ultimate bomber knocker-downer. But armourers cobbled up lots of outlaw armament sets not of official origin. I'd have to give consideration to Me 110/210/410s with 8-10 cannon and 4 2cm rockets as pretty potent customers.

 

[Henk]

Twitch mate you forgot about the Henkel 219 UHU, now that baby also was a great bomber downer.

Henk

 

[Erich]

suggest you and others go back to see how much of a dog the Uhu was. ` in the older threads in archives...........developed to late and no Reich backing to keep the heinkel in perspective, too much time wasted in test pieces, over armed, weak wings, ejection seats did not work half the time, the cockpit was too forward of the twin engines which was another fatal flaw. No rearward armament. Nothing developed operationaly beyond the A-2's. thus rear warning Rückswart was not standard equipment like on Ju 88G-6's. Books stating a-5', a-6 and a-7's used on ops are sadly misktaken.

ok rant over. I./NJG 1 is the only gruppe using the Uhu in action. I./NJG 3 had them on hand but did not fly them preferring the truley excellent Ju 88G-6 to attack RAF heavies on Gardening ops. Also just to make it clear now there were only 12 Mossies shot down by the I./NJG 1's Uhu's not a very good track record for all the claim they get in books

 

[Henk]

Later versions did have rearward firing guns and was pretty successfull against bombers though.

The Ju-88 was the god of night fighters and bomber destroyers when it came to prop driven aircraft.

Henk

 

[Erich]

Hendrik check the variants that were operational out again please, no UHU's on ops ever had a rearward gun fitting. Schrägwaffen was another thing altogether and was used for downing bombers from underneath as was the Bf 110G's and Ju 88c's and G's.

Because of the Mossie nf situation further variants were to have a third pair of eys plus a single MG 131 13mm mg in the rear position but it never evolved.

the Uhu in its interception role the A-6 anti-Mossie machine will be covered in our book although just a prototype unit.

 

[Henk]

Oh, sorry mate I meant that. I feel so stuped now. It is quite sad that id did not have great success.

They say that the Junkers 88 are actualy the best WW2 aircraft becuase it could do so much and be good in it.

Henk

 

[loomaluftwaffe]

but want as successful, it did its job though

 

[plan_D]

People who state that, Henk, must be forgetting the 'Wooden Wonder' ...

 

[Gnomey]

They are, Henk you should have a look here: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2966