phatzo
Airman 1st Class
Agreed but just pointing out there was a Hurricane capable of messing up a bombers day.
Best Bomber Killing Aircraft......
- Thread starter lesofprimus
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Agreed but just pointing out there was a Hurricane capable of messing up a bombers day.
- Thread starter
- #1,062
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Yea, no doubt about that...
B-17engineer
Colonel
I think HUrricane's were fair during BoB but after that other aircraft took over, more notably Luftwaffe IMO. I like the Fw-190 D-13 more than most.
vinnye
Senior Airman
Agreed - B17 engineer - the LW had aircraft that were designed to hit bomber formations and had learned lessons from the BOB that they put to good use. They also had LOTS of opportunity to hit bomber formations both during the day and night!
That being said - the airplanes they came up with were very good! Fw190D for me!
That being said - the airplanes they came up with were very good! Fw190D for me!
Erich
the old Sage
the Dora was not intended for the anti-bomber role it was to be used as high altitude cover for other heavier equipped A-8's or just plain fighter vs fighter combat. the Dora cannot even be considered
vinnye
Senior Airman
Did the Dora's not attack bomber formations?
I know what you are saying Erich - there was a similar situation (sort of) during the BoB - the Spitfires were usually tasked to engage the Me109's and the Hurricanes to engage the bombers.
So I would not be that suprised if the LW used similar tactics to maximise the strengths of the aircraft that they had available. But if the Dora did not have a fighter escort to engage then I presume that they would engage the bombers?
I know what you are saying Erich - there was a similar situation (sort of) during the BoB - the Spitfires were usually tasked to engage the Me109's and the Hurricanes to engage the bombers.
So I would not be that suprised if the LW used similar tactics to maximise the strengths of the aircraft that they had available. But if the Dora did not have a fighter escort to engage then I presume that they would engage the bombers?
Duke Soddy
Recruit
- 8
- Jan 16, 2010
this can be measured in many a different way.
#1 number of bombers brought down by any given aircraft
#2 Kill/Death ratio fighter vs. bomber of any given fighter
#3 A fighters impact on bomber formations when it firstappeared in theatre/war
#4 a matter of personal opinion
My Answers
#1 I would guess based on my limited scope on the stats of each individual aircraft, that the Bf-109 was responsible for more bomber kills than any other aircraft in the war.
#2 I would say the US fighters in the Pacific enjoyed the most favorable Kill/Death ratio. P-38,47,51,F6F, F4U...etc
#3 Rhinemetall-Borsig Mk103 Mk 108, the delivery systems changed to include the Me-163 and Me-262, but those two planes alone didn't amount to very many kills, revolutionary in performance as they may have been. Those were the real heros of the Luftwaffe's ability to drop buffs.
#4 my personal opinion for the best bomber killer of WWII is ... AAA and Me-262 on priciple; if hadn't been hampered with fuel, ammo, and pilot shortages as well as half their strenght devoted to fruitless bombing sorties in the KG units, the war may have been prolonged a bit longer than it did.
Duke Soddy
Recruit
- 8
- Jan 16, 2010
The Dora really never had a chance, when it arrived they could never send it up in force, they went up against P-51s and Mk XIVs at odds of 4 and 5 to one Dora. I don't think the dora killed too many bombers.
vinnye
Senior Airman
Just found this clip of a Tempest V and a 190.
Looks like there was some bad info going round or the LW had not come across a Tempest in a dive!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQTfXVqNo9A
Looks like there was some bad info going round or the LW had not come across a Tempest in a dive!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQTfXVqNo9A
bf109 Emil
Airman
In this debate, the question asked or sought was along the lines as to "What the best Bomber killing aircraft"
If this is limited to an aerial fighter, then i would have to respond it would most likely be a fighter and one which was produced by Nazi Germany...maybe the Ju88 as a night fighter and hmmm a 109/190 being a day fighter.
Along the same lines if the best aircraft could perhaps be any aircraft, then i would like to vote either the Lancaster or B-17. My simple logic being that ordinates dropped killed a large portion of factories making bombers, destroyed fuel used for bombers, but more so forced the killing of many bombers to now be produced by factories into constructing fighter planes instead of a ratio which earlier saw Germany producing a higher % of Bombers, simply by the fact that one nations bomber force could not be overlooked and as it became a threat, Bombers or orders for bombers where "Killed" in order to manufacture defensive fighter
If this is limited to an aerial fighter, then i would have to respond it would most likely be a fighter and one which was produced by Nazi Germany...maybe the Ju88 as a night fighter and hmmm a 109/190 being a day fighter.
Along the same lines if the best aircraft could perhaps be any aircraft, then i would like to vote either the Lancaster or B-17. My simple logic being that ordinates dropped killed a large portion of factories making bombers, destroyed fuel used for bombers, but more so forced the killing of many bombers to now be produced by factories into constructing fighter planes instead of a ratio which earlier saw Germany producing a higher % of Bombers, simply by the fact that one nations bomber force could not be overlooked and as it became a threat, Bombers or orders for bombers where "Killed" in order to manufacture defensive fighter
vinnye
Senior Airman
If the German infra-structure had not been so disrupted by Allied bombing - would they have produced more twin engined bombers or more of the Condor size in order to increase payload and range?
If the LW had been able to mount raids on the scale that the Allies did then some Allied fighters may well have figured more highly in the best bomber killer debate.
Maybe the Tempest - a fast powerfullt armed aircraft?
If the LW had been able to mount raids on the scale that the Allies did then some Allied fighters may well have figured more highly in the best bomber killer debate.
Maybe the Tempest - a fast powerfullt armed aircraft?
phatzo
Airman 1st Class
the Condor only had a very limited capacity for ordinance at 2100 kg
the Ju 88 on the other hand could carry 3600kg at overload. The condor was probably a bit of a lemon as a bomber but great at coastal reconaisance.
the Ju 88 on the other hand could carry 3600kg at overload. The condor was probably a bit of a lemon as a bomber but great at coastal reconaisance.
Shortround6
Major General
It is not the max. overload that counts but the bomb load that can be carried over a given distance.
- Thread starter
- #1,074
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Dont even mention the Tempest in a thread about Best Bomber Killer...
It depends on the operational situation.
If day bombers are attempting to penetrate beyond the range of effective long-range escorts, you'd want a well-armored, cannon armed airplane with long endurance and a sufficiently high speed and climb rate to overtake bomber formations and make repeat attacks during the same sortie. In this context, it would be something like a Bf-110 or Me-410 - or in a Luft 46 world, Do-335 or Bf-109Z. If the day interceptors must avoid (or be able to mix it up with) single-seat escorts, the obvious choice would be the Me-262. In a pinch the Fw-190/Ta-152, cannon-armed Spitfire variants, or something like a Ki-84 or J7W1 might work.
Night is considerably different. Here, I'd go with the He-219.
It's hard to evaluate many allied types as bomber-killers, because they didn't ever have to match up against massed formations of high-altitude multi-engined bombers. Shooting down Bettys and He-111s was a far different task than taking on Lancasters, B-17Gs or B-29s. We know Mk I Spitfires and Hurricanes were not ideal bomber interceptors - even eight or 12 .303 MGs were hard-pressed to bring down He-111's. Luckily for the British, the Germans attempted to mount a long-range strategic campaign with twin engined medium bombers and attackers. One wonders what would have happened if the Germans launched the BoB with truly effective heavy bombers using USAAF defensive tactics.
If day bombers are attempting to penetrate beyond the range of effective long-range escorts, you'd want a well-armored, cannon armed airplane with long endurance and a sufficiently high speed and climb rate to overtake bomber formations and make repeat attacks during the same sortie. In this context, it would be something like a Bf-110 or Me-410 - or in a Luft 46 world, Do-335 or Bf-109Z. If the day interceptors must avoid (or be able to mix it up with) single-seat escorts, the obvious choice would be the Me-262. In a pinch the Fw-190/Ta-152, cannon-armed Spitfire variants, or something like a Ki-84 or J7W1 might work.
Night is considerably different. Here, I'd go with the He-219.
It's hard to evaluate many allied types as bomber-killers, because they didn't ever have to match up against massed formations of high-altitude multi-engined bombers. Shooting down Bettys and He-111s was a far different task than taking on Lancasters, B-17Gs or B-29s. We know Mk I Spitfires and Hurricanes were not ideal bomber interceptors - even eight or 12 .303 MGs were hard-pressed to bring down He-111's. Luckily for the British, the Germans attempted to mount a long-range strategic campaign with twin engined medium bombers and attackers. One wonders what would have happened if the Germans launched the BoB with truly effective heavy bombers using USAAF defensive tactics.
*facepalm*
Bullo Loris
Senior Airman
- 334
- Oct 14, 2006
What about Ilyushin Il-2 Sturmovik?
As a bomber killing aircraft?
You do know that the Il-2 was an attack aircraft right not an interceptor or "bomber killer"?
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
he must play Birds of Prey....
and i just sifted through this thread and no one even brought up...which front or theater. jap bomber in the pacific....german bombers over russia....german bombers over the UK...everyone assumed allied from the UK.
and i just sifted through this thread and no one even brought up...which front or theater. jap bomber in the pacific....german bombers over russia....german bombers over the UK...everyone assumed allied from the UK.
