Adolf Galland
Airman 1st Class
and the fact that the Zero is not the best, even the Japs admit that the Ki-84 is a far better fighter...
Best Dogfighter Poll Revisited...
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GermansRGeniuses
Tech Sergeant
Actually, the Hurricane was one of the best.
Whether or not there are better ones than it, that's his opinion.
Also, the La-7 seems to be missing, seeing as how it's not there, I'll say La-5FN.
Whether or not there are better ones than it, that's his opinion.
Also, the La-7 seems to be missing, seeing as how it's not there, I'll say La-5FN.
I suggest you read the original question a little more carefully.Adolf Galland said:
the question asked was;
"What was the best Dog-fighter "
Not what was the best fighter.
In a turning battle, , the Hawker Hurricane, if both pilots were of the same skill and determination, would beat everyone of the aircraft you mentioned.
The advantages the other aircraft had was in speed, climb and dive.
They would use these advantages to engage the Hurricane only when they had the advantage, and avoid it when they didn't
Adolf Galland
Airman 1st Class
ok fine
Adolf Galland
Airman 1st Class
wait redcoat: the hurrican is very bad in turn fights so i don't know wut ur talking about
Excuse me? The Spitfire didn't engage the Zero in a turning fight? The Spitfire could engage the Zero anyway it wanted, it could turn much better than anything else in the skies over the CBI the Allies had.
The Spitfire could run rings around the Zero and blast it with .50s or 20mm. That is why it got a 8 : 1 kill ratio. And Hurricane turning inside of everything Allied? Are you on drugs, or is it a mental deficiant?
The Spitfire could run rings around the Zero and blast it with .50s or 20mm. That is why it got a 8 : 1 kill ratio. And Hurricane turning inside of everything Allied? Are you on drugs, or is it a mental deficiant?
GermansRGeniuses
Tech Sergeant
If the Hurricane was so bad in turn fights, why was its BoB score so much better than the Spitfires, in both fighter and bomber kills?
Its turn abilities are about on par with the Zero's, so long as you don't stall it...
Its turn abilities are about on par with the Zero's, so long as you don't stall it...
I don't believe I stated it was a bad turner. I said it couldn't turn inside everything. The reason the Hurricane got better kills in the BoB was not because it was a better plane, it was because there were 32 Squadrons of them and only 11 Squadrons of Spitfire.
If the Hurricane was so good, why was it taken from frontline service in 1942?
And don't get me wrong, I love the Hurricane. It was the saviour of Britain but the Spitfire is factually a better plane.
If the Hurricane was so good, why was it taken from frontline service in 1942?
And don't get me wrong, I love the Hurricane. It was the saviour of Britain but the Spitfire is factually a better plane.
GermansRGeniuses
Tech Sergeant
plan_D said:
Actually, I was responding to Adolf's comments...
Unless of course you were responding to redcoat...
Because its performance in terms of speed. climb and dive had fallen so far behind the other front line fighters in service.plan_D said:
Dog-fighting ability is only useful if you can get in a position to use it to your advantage.
I totally agree with you, in fact if you look up the Battle of Britain thread you will see I say exactly the same thing.
This thread is about dog-fighting, or a turning fight. In this the Hurricane was a little better than the Spitfire, in everything else the Spitfire was better.
No, when the Spitfire encountered the Zero for the first few times, it suffered high losses, because its pilots attempted to fight the same way as they did against the Bf 109. However when the pilots realized they couldn't out-turn a Zero, they changed their tactics and used the Spitfires better speed, climb and dive to defeat the Zero. It was using these tactics that the Spitfire achieved an 8 : 1 ratioplan_D said:
The Hurricane could out-turn a Spitfire, are you aware of any other Allied fighter that could do this????
I could do with some. I've got quite a bit of back pain at the moment
I've not been rude to you, therefore its good manners not to be rude to me
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lesofprimus
Brigadier General
I think some people have a different definition of the term "Dogfighter"......
It was a question. How is that rude? 
No, a dog-fight is when a fighter tangles with another. This doesn't automatically mean turning-fight. If the Spitfire is rolling on its back and diving away, is it turning? If it's climbing high over the Hurricane, flipping on its back and zooming back down on the Hurricane, is it turning?
No, a dog-fight is when a fighter tangles with another. This doesn't automatically mean turning-fight. If the Spitfire is rolling on its back and diving away, is it turning? If it's climbing high over the Hurricane, flipping on its back and zooming back down on the Hurricane, is it turning?
Medvedya
Master Sergeant
Here's a statement for variety.
Pack it in with the cheap shots. Goes out to everybody.
Pack it in with the cheap shots. Goes out to everybody.
evangilder
"Shooter"
If I may say something about the Zero here. I have talked with a couple of fighter pilots and they agree that in a low speed dogfight, there was little chance of out-turning a zero. The ailerons on that plane were described "big as barn doors". They worked great at slower speeds. Once the speed picked up, they didn;t have the strength to hold the turn.
In the early days of the Pacific war, the Zero became almost mythical until the tactics were developed that could take advantage of it's weakness. The AVG, flying the P-40s were the first to develop the tactics of zooming in from higher altitude while firing and then zoom back up out of harms way.
Before those tactics were developed, the Zero was scoring kills against the US P-39, P-40, F4F, F2A Buffalo and P-26. The British were also losing to the Zero with the F2A, Hurricane and yes, the Spitfire. These were early war versions but the fact remains that early on in the Pacific Theater, the Zero was ruling the skies.
In the early days of the Pacific war, the Zero became almost mythical until the tactics were developed that could take advantage of it's weakness. The AVG, flying the P-40s were the first to develop the tactics of zooming in from higher altitude while firing and then zoom back up out of harms way.
Before those tactics were developed, the Zero was scoring kills against the US P-39, P-40, F4F, F2A Buffalo and P-26. The British were also losing to the Zero with the F2A, Hurricane and yes, the Spitfire. These were early war versions but the fact remains that early on in the Pacific Theater, the Zero was ruling the skies.
