Best Dogfighter Poll Revisited...

Adolf Galland · Jan 7, 2005

and the fact that the Zero is not the best, even the Japs admit that the Ki-84 is a far better fighter...

GermansRGeniuses · Jan 7, 2005

Actually, the Hurricane was one of the best.

Whether or not there are better ones than it, that's his opinion.

Also, the La-7 seems to be missing, seeing as how it's not there, I'll say La-5FN.

redcoat · Jan 7, 2005

Adolf Galland said:
WHAT? ARE U KIDDING ME? HURRICANE? OMG UR MAD; THERE IS SO MANY FIGHTERS THAT ARE BETTER THAN IT: P-51, P-38, P-47, Spit, Me-109, Fw-190, and a lot more!!

I suggest you read the original question a little more carefully.
the question asked was;
"What was the best Dog-fighter "
Not what was the best fighter.
In a turning battle, , the Hawker Hurricane, if both pilots were of the same skill and determination, would beat everyone of the aircraft you mentioned.
The advantages the other aircraft had was in speed, climb and dive.
They would use these advantages to engage the Hurricane only when they had the advantage, and avoid it when they didn't

Adolf Galland · Jan 7, 2005

ok fine

Adolf Galland · Jan 7, 2005

wait redcoat: the hurrican is very bad in turn fights so i don't know wut ur talking about

plan_D · Jan 7, 2005

Excuse me? The Spitfire didn't engage the Zero in a turning fight? The Spitfire could engage the Zero anyway it wanted, it could turn much better than anything else in the skies over the CBI the Allies had.
The Spitfire could run rings around the Zero and blast it with .50s or 20mm. That is why it got a 8 : 1 kill ratio. And Hurricane turning inside of everything Allied? Are you on drugs, or is it a mental deficiant?

GermansRGeniuses · Jan 7, 2005

If the Hurricane was so bad in turn fights, why was its BoB score so much better than the Spitfires, in both fighter and bomber kills?

Its turn abilities are about on par with the Zero's, so long as you don't stall it...

plan_D · Jan 7, 2005

I don't believe I stated it was a bad turner. I said it couldn't turn inside everything. The reason the Hurricane got better kills in the BoB was not because it was a better plane, it was because there were 32 Squadrons of them and only 11 Squadrons of Spitfire.

If the Hurricane was so good, why was it taken from frontline service in 1942?

And don't get me wrong, I love the Hurricane. It was the saviour of Britain but the Spitfire is factually a better plane.

GermansRGeniuses · Jan 7, 2005

plan_D said:
I don't believe I stated it was a bad turner. I said it couldn't turn inside everything. The reason the Hurricane got better kills in the BoB was not because it was a better plane, it was because there were 32 Squadrons of them and only 11 Squadrons of Spitfire.

If the Hurricane was so good, why was it taken from frontline service in 1942?

And don't get me wrong, I love the Hurricane. It was the saviour of Britain but the Spitfire is factually a better plane.

Actually, I was responding to Adolf's comments...

Unless of course you were responding to redcoat...

plan_D · Jan 7, 2005

I just don't know anymore.

redcoat · Jan 7, 2005

plan_D said:
If the Hurricane was so good, why was it taken from frontline service in 1942?

Because its performance in terms of speed. climb and dive had fallen so far behind the other front line fighters in service.
Dog-fighting ability is only useful if you can get in a position to use it to your advantage.

And don't get me wrong, I love the Hurricane. It was the saviour of Britain but the Spitfire is factually a better plane.

I totally agree with you, in fact if you look up the Battle of Britain thread you will see I say exactly the same thing.
This thread is about dog-fighting, or a turning fight. In this the Hurricane was a little better than the Spitfire, in everything else the Spitfire was better.

plan_D · Jan 7, 2005

A dogfight isn't always a turning-fight. Speed, climb, dive and roll can all work in a dogfight. The Spitfire surpassed the Hurricane in all those.

redcoat · Jan 7, 2005

plan_D said:
Excuse me? The Spitfire didn't engage the Zero in a turning fight? The Spitfire could engage the Zero anyway it wanted, it could turn much better than anything else in the skies over the CBI the Allies had.

No, when the Spitfire encountered the Zero for the first few times, it suffered high losses, because its pilots attempted to fight the same way as they did against the Bf 109. However when the pilots realized they couldn't out-turn a Zero, they changed their tactics and used the Spitfires better speed, climb and dive to defeat the Zero. It was using these tactics that the Spitfire achieved an 8 : 1 ratio

And Hurricane turning inside of everything Allied?

The Hurricane could out-turn a Spitfire, are you aware of any other Allied fighter that could do this????

Are you on drugs,

I could do with some. I've got quite a bit of back pain at the moment

or is it a mental deficiant?

I've not been rude to you, therefore its good manners not to be rude to me

redcoat · Jan 7, 2005

plan_D said:
A dogfight isn't always a turning-fight.

That's exactly what a dog-fight is!

lesofprimus · Jan 7, 2005

I think some people have a different definition of the term "Dogfighter"......

plan_D · Jan 7, 2005

It was a question. How is that rude?

No, a dog-fight is when a fighter tangles with another. This doesn't automatically mean turning-fight. If the Spitfire is rolling on its back and diving away, is it turning? If it's climbing high over the Hurricane, flipping on its back and zooming back down on the Hurricane, is it turning?

redcoat · Jan 7, 2005

plan_D said:
It was a question. How is that rude?

Are you a total prat...
Thats a question as well

redcoat · Jan 7, 2005

plan_D said:
No, a dog-fight is when a fighter tangles with another.

In close combat

This doesn't automatically mean turning-fight. If the Spitfire is rolling on its back and diving away, is it turning?

Thats breaking off from a dog-fight

If it's climbing high over the Hurricane, flipping on its back and zooming back down on the Hurricane, is it turning?

That called a 'bounce', its not dog-fighting.

Medvedya · Jan 7, 2005

Here's a statement for variety.

Pack it in with the cheap shots. Goes out to everybody.

evangilder · Jan 7, 2005

If I may say something about the Zero here. I have talked with a couple of fighter pilots and they agree that in a low speed dogfight, there was little chance of out-turning a zero. The ailerons on that plane were described "big as barn doors". They worked great at slower speeds. Once the speed picked up, they didn;t have the strength to hold the turn.

In the early days of the Pacific war, the Zero became almost mythical until the tactics were developed that could take advantage of it's weakness. The AVG, flying the P-40s were the first to develop the tactics of zooming in from higher altitude while firing and then zoom back up out of harms way.

Before those tactics were developed, the Zero was scoring kills against the US P-39, P-40, F4F, F2A Buffalo and P-26. The British were also losing to the Zero with the F2A, Hurricane and yes, the Spitfire. These were early war versions but the fact remains that early on in the Pacific Theater, the Zero was ruling the skies.

Best Dogfighter Poll Revisited...

Best Dogfighter Between 15,000 - 35,000 feet......

Tempest Mk V

F6F-3 Hellcat

P-47D Thunderbolt

A6M Zero

P-51D Mustang

Me-262A Schwalbe

P-38L Lightning

Me-109E/F

Spitfire Mk IX / XIV

Fw-190D-9

F4U-1D Corsair

Yak-3M

La-5FN

Hayate Ki-84-IA

Kawanishi N1K2-J

Airman 1st Class

Tech Sergeant

Senior Airman

Airman 1st Class

Airman 1st Class

Lieutenant Colonel

Tech Sergeant

Lieutenant Colonel

Tech Sergeant

Lieutenant Colonel

Senior Airman

Lieutenant Colonel

Senior Airman

Senior Airman

Brigadier General

Lieutenant Colonel

Senior Airman

Senior Airman

Master Sergeant

"Shooter"

Users who are viewing this thread

Similar threads