Best Fighter III

[cheddar cheese]

No, the Italian 5 Series are NOT included, I never said they were and made it clear that they werent twice, why is everyone ssuming they are?

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

well the tempest is in with a shot.........

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree the Tempest is one of the best fighters.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Definately.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

So lets see basically we are choosing from the P-51, P-47, P-38, Spitfire, Tempest, Bf-109, Fw-190, and Ta-152, right?

 

[cheddar cheese]

And I choose Fw-190/Ta-152.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Same here I go with the Ta-152H.

 

[wmaxt]

So lets see basically we are choosing from the P-51, P-47, P-38, Spitfire, Tempest, Bf-109, Fw-190, and Ta-152, right?

Is this limited to tht ETO? If not the F4U-4 should be included. Also shouldn't the Fw-190 and Ta-152 be considered as one aircraft type or are the P-47M/N and P-51H models left out?

My choice would be the P-38.

wmaxt

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

No it is not limited and I am sorry I forgot those aircraft.

No I dont think the Ta-152 and the Fw-190 should not be grouped into one, they were an evolution but different planes.

In my listing there I was just listing the basic aircraft and then the different varients can be discusses for example I put P-51 but that can include whatever varients a particular person wishes. They can say the P-51B was the best of the war if they like.

 

[cheddar cheese]

The main advantage the P-38 has is the fact it has twin engines. I was reading a pilot account earlier of someone who flew P-38's in the MTO. He got shot at by Fw-190's and an engine got taken out. He managed to make it back to Sicily on the one engine at full power. He reckoned he would have died if he was in a Mustang or similar...Ill try and find it again.

 

[wmaxt]

No it is not limited and I am sorry I forgot those aircraft.

No I dont think the Ta-152 and the Fw-190 should not be grouped into one, they were an evolution but different planes.

In my listing there I was just listing the basic aircraft and then the different varients can be discusses for example I put P-51 but that can include whatever varients a particular person wishes. They can say the P-51B was the best of the war if they like.

I ask because the P-47M/N and P-51H are just as different/same as the Fw-190/Ta-152. I think of them in the same light because the reason the desigination changed was to recognize Tank not because the aircraft was of a signifigantly different design.

wmaxt

 

[wmaxt]

The main advantage the P-38 has is the fact it has twin engines. I was reading a pilot account earlier of someone who flew P-38's in the MTO. He got shot at by Fw-190's and an engine got taken out. He managed to make it back to Sicily on the one engine at full power. He reckoned he would have died if he was in a Mustang or similar...Ill try and find it again.

There are many such accounts. I found an interesting set of numbers the other day. of the 1,758 P-38s written off in the ETO only 451 failed to return to base. of the 2,520 P-51s written off, 2,201 failed to return home. Adjusted for percentage of sorties for every P-38 lost 3.8 P-51s were lost.
When compared to the P-47 the P-38/P-47 loss rates are almost the same.

wmaxt

 

[cheddar cheese]

Wow, thats pretty amazing!

 

[wmaxt]

Wow, thats pretty amazing!

It sure puts a new light on the P-38s early problems doesn't it!

wmaxt

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

of the 1,758 P-38s written off in the ETO only 451 failed to return to base

'ang on, how were the rest lost then, they can't all have been because of maintence problems and such??

 

[cheddar cheese]

They were written off but still flew back to base.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Upon landing at the base the mechanics discovered that it was not repairable.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

what, when they saw an entire engine blown off

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

There are a lot of things that can cause it to be deemed unrepairable. Structural damage can be very hard to repair especially if it is in the ribbing.

 

[wmaxt]

Also once an aircraft is twisted or out of true you only fly it again in extream circumstanses. Amoung the numbers written off are training accidents, collisions and any aircraft lost on the ground.

The P-47 has a better total writeoff rate, it seams that 3,077 were written off (423,000 sorties) with 1,043 not returning to base. One note has to be mentioned here P-47s flew the Britten to German border escort leg twice a day on bomber missions. These missions were not normaly heavily contested, greatly reducing both opportunities and danger while doubling sortie count.

wmaxt