Best ship buster.....

[lesofprimus]

From November 1943 onwards the Mosquito was used to attack U-boats shortly after, or just before they entered a port... Warning of these opportunities was provided by code breakers......

At the moment the U-boats travelled to the surface, they were vulnerable to rockets or the 57mm shells of the FB.XVIII..... So, for safety, the U-boats usually formed small convoys, with an escort of mine sweepers or so called Sperrbrecher ships, which had hulls reinforced with concrete as a protection against mines; both types bristled with anti-aircraft guns......

For example, on 27 March 1944 six FB.VIs and two FB.XVIIIs attacked a convoy towards La Pallice, formed by U-960 with a escort of four M-class mine sweepers and two Sprerrbrecher vessels...... Three mine sweepers suffered light damage, U-960 was badly damaged, two Mosquitos returned home with serious damage, and one crash-landed......

U-boats sunk by the Mossie......

1944
U-976, U-821, U-998,

1945
U-804, U-843, U-1065, U-251, U-2359

8 U-boats lost to Mosquito aircraft.......

 

[lesofprimus]

The Mk XVIII Mosquito was a rare variant as only 18, including the prototype HJ732, were built. The aircraft were HX902, 904, MM424, 425, NT220, 224, 225, and PZ251, 152, 300, 301, 346, 467, 468, 469 and 470. Most served with 248 Squadron and were in use until the end of the war. The exception was PZ467 which was sent to the USA for evaluation and did not see front line service. What set all these aircraft apart was that they were all fitted with the Molins 6 pounder anti-tank gun.

The Molins anti-tank gun was produced by Molins Machine Co of Peterborough at the beginning of the war. It was intended to be mounted on small armoured vehicles for use against tanks. It held 22 or 25 rounds in batches of 4 or 5 which were fed electrically to the breech. As one batch was fired the next was moved into position. It completed trials in 1942 but the Germans then introduced the Tiger tank which was impervious to 6 pounder shells.

The Hawker Hurricane IID's were fitted with 40mm Rolls Royce BF or Vickers Type S anti-tank guns but it was thought that something heavier was needed such as the Molins. As the Molins weighed 1,800lbs (816kg) this would mean a bigger, preferably twin engined, aircraft and de Havilland were approached to see if the Mosquito would do. As they had already done a feasibility study on the much heavier 3.7 inch (94mm) gun they agreed it was possible.

An old FBVI fuselage was used for static firing tests but a bolt broke so another method of attaching the gun had to be found. A new FBVI Mosquito, HJ732, was selected and modified to a Mk XVIII. The 12ft 5in (3.8mm) gun was mounted at a slightly downward angle and protruding 2 feet (600mm) from the nose. It now really looked like a Mosquito with a sting.

After further ground firing tests flying tests took place and a snag was found. If the Molins gun had a force of more than 2.5g imposed on it then it would not load the shells. Modifications were made so it was capable of sustaining both negative and positive g forces. However after firing 400 rounds the under surface of the flaps tore off. After strengthening of the flaps it was decided that only the two outer .303 Browning machine guns would be retained but with a greatly increased ammunition capacity.

Another minor problem was that the gun's breech was behind the crew and the spent shell cases were ejected inside the aircraft fuselage where they rolled about with aircraft movement. It was thought that if they were ejected externally they might hit the tailplane.

To accomodate both the Molins and the Browning machine guns a different gunsight, the MkIIIa, replaced the MkII. This had different aiming marks for the Molins and the Brownings. In addition protective armour and long range fuel tanks were fitted so the aircraft could be used against U boats.

The aircraft served with 248 Squadron which was based at Predannack in Cornwall from October 1943. They proved to be a great success and the first U boat, U-123, was sunk on November 7 in the Bay of Biscay. The Molins armour piercing shell weighing 7.1lbs (3.2kg) were tipped with hardened steel and had no problems entering a submarine's pressure hull and creating great havoc inside.

248 Squadron protected Allied shipping during the D-Day landings and then was moved north to Banff in Scotland in 1944. From there it carried out many attacks on German shipping and installations in Norway.

Specification of the Molins 6 pounder Anti-tank Gun.

Bore 2.25in (57mm)
Action Recoil
Cyclic Rate 60 rounds per minute
Muzzle Velocity 2,600ft/sec (792m/sec)
Ammo feed Molins automatic
Magazine 22 rounds (some sources say 25)
Length 12ft 5in (3.8m)
Height 38in (965mm)
Weight 1,800lbs (816kg)

 

[KraziKanuK]

Not completely impervious to 6 pounder shells. The first Tiger captured by the Brit was in North Africa had been knocked out by a 6pdr. This was on the Robaa Rd on Jan 20 1943. Another Tiger was disabled in the same engagement and blown up by sappers.

There has been a book writen about this Tiger and I think it is still at Bovington.

 

[mosquitoman]

I've seen that Tiger, it was a lucky shot as it hit between the turret and the main body of the tank. The heat of the shot welded the turret to the chassis, scaring the crew of the Tiger so they ran away.

 

[redcoat]

It completed trials in 1942 but the Germans then introduced the Tiger tank which was impervious to 6 pounder shells.

No.
Encountered by British for the first time near Pont du Fahs, Tunisia in February 1943 when the Germans launched an attack on British positions . The 2 Tigers (of Unit 501 ) that were sent into this battle, ( accompanied by 9 PzKpfw IIIs IVs), were both were knocked out by British 6 pounder guns at a range of 500 yards firing at the flanks of the Tigers.

Using normal APC shells a 6 pdr could KO a Tiger with a hit on the side or rear at close range, (ie under 500 yards.)
The 6 pdr shell could penetrate approx 85mm of armour at 500 yards, the side and rear armour of a Tiger was 80mm.
When APDS was introduced for the 6 pdr from May 44, the 6 pdr could KO a Tiger at over a 1000 yards (penetration 134mm at 1000 yards)



pps, When a Tiger tank met a Churchill tank for the first time ( also in the North African Theater) it was the 6 pdr armed Churchill tank of the Royal Irish which was the winner.

Sadly when the Churchill tank was 'upgunned' to take the 75mm (far better HE shell) it lost the ability to take on a Tiger

 

[Erich]

back on topic...................kicking your butt so hard your cheeks go vertical............ouch !

 

[Erich]

another German ship getting raked over the coals.....

 

[Lightning Guy]

Very nice pics. Whenever I see pics like that with all the lead flying around I am amazed that anyone ever survived the war.

 

[mosquitoman]

Those pics just show the firepower of the Mossies and Beaufighters doing the damage

 

[Erich]

here is the last ship I will post getting the crap kicked out of it. In the northern waters....

 

[Erich]

though an older pic 42-1943 it does show the closeness of the big guns and the Flak. later the heavy 105mm's/150mm's were replaced by quad 2cm and single 2cm and 3.7cm's when the biggest problem was Allied a/c. More of the Kriegsmarine escort ships, cargo, mine, etc were equipped with multiple AA systems

 

[Erich]

last call. Beach escorts during June of 44. Possible Mossie fodder eh ??

 

[Udet]

Great pics indeed.

I must say, however, that even if the shots of British planes strafing the German ships can be impressive, i seriously doubt they did anything further than moderate damage and killing and/or wonding a few guys of the crew.

I doubt the guns fitted to any aircraft in WWII could sink ships like those shown in Erich´s photos.

While of course I do not have any statistics on this issue, I do think the Stuka and Ju88 can certainly be amongst the most succesful ship destroyers of WWII.

I recall reading there was a Japanese bomber, of the Japanese Carrier Force, which was one of the most succesful ship destroyer of the entire conflict, can´t recall the model though.

 

[Erich]

Udet I think the second pic I posted shows the smoke trails of rockets aimed towards their targets. No, normally 20mm would damage severly but not sink a heavy ship, would have to be rockets or torpedos. The rockets taking out the conning tower-communications and start fires which of course could lead to blowing up AA and heavy ammo and then ? A problem of course were the German ships armed with above deck mines, and indedd 20mm rounds could touch off several of these and the whole ship would go up.....

 

[Udet]

You are correct Erich.

Rockets are a different story for sure. It would be great if any ballistic expert here could tell if the tracers shown on the pic you referr to come from rockets.

In guncamera footage I have, tracers can be seen from specific kinds of ammo fired from cannons and MG´s, so it could be the case here as well. But I can not tell for sure.

I was strictly referring to guns fitted to aircraft in my previous comment though.

 

[Lightning Guy]

Udet I believe you are referring the the D3A "Val" which sank more Allied shipping than any other Axis bomber. The Helldiver was the top killer of Japanese shipping.

I believe you would be surprised at the damage a tight group of guns (like on a Mossie, Beau, or B-25J) could do. It must be remembered that merchant shipping typically didn't have the resistance to battle damage that warships did. I image that concentrated gunfire could put quite a hole in the hull of such a ship. Of course, I do realize that these guns were used primarily to sweep the decks with fire so torps, rockets, or bombs could be employed.

 

[KraziKanuK]

Right LG. These ships, wether commercial or military did not have armour and had thin hull skins (~ 1/4", which will not stop a .50"). The ship would look like a sieve from waterline to mast top. So even if it did not sink, time, manpower and resources would have to be spent re-pairing the ship. One less ship to carry cargo or to use in convoy protection in the next several convoys.

 

[mosquitoman]

The idea of the guns was to kill the flak crews so the rocket and torpedo armed planes, or skip bombers could come in and sink the ships

 

[KraziKanuK]

Right LG. These ships, wether commercial or military did not have armour and had thin hull skins (~ 1/4", which will not stop a .50"). The ship would look like a sieve from waterline to mast top. So even if it did not sink, time, manpower and resources would have to be spent re-pairing the ship. One less ship to carry cargo or to use in convoy protection in the next several convoys.

 

[GermansRGeniuses]

No comments on this, then?