Best Tank Killer of WW2 continued

evangilder · Mar 8, 2005

No doubt. I have the highest respect for the Iwo vets. I have respect for all WWII vets, but Iwo has a soft spot for me.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Mar 8, 2005

They truely fought a tough battle.

Anonymous · Mar 8, 2005

evangilder said:
Iwo Jima cave entrances actually had multiple entrances. There were 16 miles of tunnels and 1500 rooms below the surface of the island which is only 7.5 square miles. Many times, "cleared" caves became reinfested with Japanese, not from the surface. Bill Genaust was one of many Marines that entered one of those caves to never return.

Most aerial bombing done to Iwo Jima before the invasion was very ineffective. Napalm was used before the invasion to take out enemy installations and to remove camouflage, but that was ineffective because the Japanese used very little combustible material for camouflage.

Many Iwo Jima cave's were as you describe, but there were also many that had only had one entrance. And even with mulitple entrances, napalm can consume so much O2 and fill the target with so much noxious fumes as to incapcitate or kill the occupants to a good depth.

=S=

Lunatic

evangilder · Mar 8, 2005

Yes, napalm can do that, but in the case of Iwo Jima, bombing had little effect on the defenders.

Anonymous · Mar 8, 2005

evangilder said:
Yes, napalm can do that, but in the case of Iwo Jima, bombing had little effect on the defenders.

Pre-battle bombardment had little effect. Close air-support was an entirely different matter. Corsairs would come in and napalm the defenses, and then the Marines would move up before the Japanese could re-occupy them from below. At this point, flame-throwers would spew more napalm right into the mouth of the cave complex.

=S=

Lunatic

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Mar 9, 2005

Yeah I do know that they used flame throwers to burn everyone alive in the pill boxes and small caves.

trackend · Mar 30, 2005

Hi guys just got in from a night turn. I have read with interest the comments made on Napalm and Iwo Jima I agree with many of them as you say naval and air bombardment had limited effect on Iwo Jima this was not unusual even during WW1 with colossal pre attack bombardments lasting on occasion several days the destruction of the defending forces was very rarely successful although causing many casualties and cases of appalling shell shock it failed to de-nude the defending forces sufficiently to prevent mass slaughter amongst the attackers. The fortifications on Iwo Jima had been well prepared and near misses from bomb or shell had little effect this resulted in the requirement of close quarter troop infiltration at great loss to the units satchel charges or grenades inserted into the positions proved to be one of the more effective methods of eliminating the enemy and the use of directed incendiary weapons either man pack or tank also aided in this,as did close quarter air support which had been mastered by the US and is now the norm. Unfortunately there was no easy quick fix hence the long slog to take the place.
Using Napalm as an anti tank weapon causes two major problems one it renders a large area unusable for some time after the initial explosion thus slowing down or halting an advance and two it acts as a screen that can be used by an enemy to redeploy to new positions unseen by the attacking forces. In the case of Japanese Armour the Sherman was more the a match for these poor quality machines (generally the average amour thickness was only 12-25mm source: The Directory of tanks by David Miller ) I agree with you Adler the thought of Napalm is not very pleasant and yes they do have some vile weapons these day including Thermobaric. http://www.rotten.com/library/history/war/wmd/fuel-air-explosion/ and as I am sure you know all too well Adler some anti tank rounds HEAT have the effect of increasing the internal temperature of an armored vehicle by several thousand degrees (instant brew up).

I remember seeing a picture of a delightful device developed in WW1 called a vitriolic weapon it looked very much like a flame thrower but it ejected Hydrochloric Acid.(charming)!

the lancaster kicks ass · Mar 30, 2005

ouch!!

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Mar 30, 2005

trackend said:
and as I am sure you know all too well Adler some anti tank rounds HEAT have the effect of increasing the internal temperature of an armored vehicle by several thousand degrees (instant brew up).

I have seen some Iraqi Tanks that had a very small hole punched through the side of the turret armour but no visible outside damage other then that and no exit hole. But when you climbed down inside everything was melted and charred. Quite nasty too.

trackend · Mar 30, 2005

I am pleased to say i've not seen the results of a a brewed up tank Adler.
Ive seen a few people who cooked themselves on 25,000 volt power lines one of them had his pelvic bone glowing like the bar of an electric fire after it had boiled his insides away not very pleasent its a smell I wont forget in a hurry.
So I'll leave that nasty side of things to you professional fellas.
Good luck to you mate.
All I saw in the army was the results of a few terrorist bombs.

the lancaster kicks ass · Mar 30, 2005

what do you do now then??

trackend · Mar 30, 2005

Railway Lanc. Actually i've seen more deaths on here than I did as a squaddie but then I have been on here ten times longer and I wasn't on a war footing in the army like Adler and his mates.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Mar 30, 2005

Railway is very dangerous job, I read about things happening all the time to Railway workers.

Anonymous · Mar 30, 2005

Yep the railroad is a dangerous work place.

What gets me is that commercial crabbing is considered more dangerous than being a US soldier in a war zone. Somehow I cannot see putting my life on the line to catch crabs.

=S=

Lunatic

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Mar 30, 2005

I would not put my life on the line either but I love to eat crabs.

the lancaster kicks ass · Mar 30, 2005

Nonskimmer · Mar 30, 2005

Well, the pay is said to be top-notch for crab fishermen. It better be if it's that dangerous!

trackend · Mar 31, 2005

I think lots of civilian jobs can have there dodgy moments but its still not the same as having some body trying to kill you and we where discussing Iwo Jima which makes anything most of us have done or seen pale into insignificance by comparison.

Nasty thing catching crabs, but to be paid for it thats unusual. I caught them once in Belize for free (and very irritating little gits they where too)

the lancaster kicks ass · Mar 31, 2005

Anonymous · Mar 31, 2005

trackend said:
I think lots of civilian jobs can have there dodgy moments but its still not the same as having some body trying to kill you and we where discussing Iwo Jima which makes anything most of us have done or seen pale into insignificance by comparison.

Nasty thing catching crabs, but to be paid for it thats unusual. I caught them once in Belize for free (and very irritating little gits they where too)

WWII was hell, and Iwo Jima was the center of hell. I didn't mean to trivialize it at all.

The kind of "crabbing" I am refering to is going out on a boat to work traps off Alaska - it's considered the most hazerdous job in America. The death rate is something like 0.125% for about a 5 week outing. If you get swept off the deck into the water, your chances of survival are extremely slim. 800 lbs crab traps are swung around on archaic hoists in bad weather.

=S=

Lunatic

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