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By WW2 a tail dragger multi engine aircraft was a dinosaur - a hazard to operate, from loading it with bombs to landing, it was an obsolete configuration. Right there both aircraft were off to a bad start.
Fire control, pressurization, internal avionics, configuration were all superior to both 177 and 277.
Not to say the Germans didn't have better of each, the B-29 just put it all together into one weapons' system that worked and that's what made it superior to both 177 and 277.
several hundred B-29s were able to be produced a month with ease, to even say Germany had the capability to produce the 177 or 277 in the numbers the B-29 was being produced is nonsense.
You're speculating both aircraft "would of" operated as advertised and based on the 177 I find that unlikely.
"Would of could of should of" - for that matter "IF" the 177 or 277 made it into significant numbers and deployed in a capacity where they were to be intercepted, then you might of had say a P-58 intercepting them, top speed in excess of 450 mph and specifically designed to take on aircraft like the He 177
It was and never deployed in numbers to mean anything...
All true but don't forget while the B-29 was in gestation the B-29D was being developed which took care of all problems first encountered with the B-29. the B-29D became the B-50...
So ? The He-177, He-277, Ju-390 Me-264 were all ready to go the Germans were on the road to building jet bombers as-well.
Soren, if you bothered to read the thread on "the best bomber of WW2", you would have learned that every single bomber that dropped its payload at high altitudes, almost always missed its target.
So what if your bomber(s) flew at 40,000 ft. It wouldn't have hit anything just as the B17, B24 and B29 didn't.
Now about your statement about the German bombers had higher structural strength than the allied bombers is pure speculation bordering on the absurd.
We know how strong the Lanc, B17, B24 and B29 were, because THEY FLEW 100'S OF THOUSANDS OF SORTIES IN COMBAT AND THE GERMAN BOMBERS HAD ONLY A HANDFULL.
Don't make these ridiculous statements unless you have data to back yourself up on it.
They were hardly ready to go as like all of Germany's aircraft projects , they were rushed into assembly before their bugs were ironed out.
And none of the ones close enough to be thought of as being ready for operations still didn't come close to the B29 capabilities that was proven in combat and not on paper.
Heres a nice website about fight tests of the Me-264.
Seems like this "wonder bomber" had serious flight issues that were never corrected and about the only extensive missions it flew was on paper.
Messerschmitt Me 264 Luft '46 Entry
When you look at its payload figures, its worthless. All that time and material to build a bomber that could only carry a paltry payload. And to top it off, only one prototype was built and it was still working out some serious problems while the B29 was beginning to approach mass production.
I think we can scratch this clunker off of the German "superior" bomber list!
Sure there is, but your loading bombs on and aircraft resting at an angle, it's a lot easier if the aircraft has a nose landing gear, but that's only one minor issue. Bottom line a tail dragger multi-engine bomber was just an operation accident waiting to happen, and the proof of this is that there were no large multi engine tail draggers built in the postwar years.Well it doesn't seem there were any problems loading the He-177 or He-277, there being lots of space beneath it to load bombs.
And how many were built and what was its impact? I know - "fighter defence." Would of could of should of...We're talking about a whole Airforce here. What good is the weapon when you cant use it to its capacity and both the 177 and 277 were prime examples of this...I doubt that very much FLYBOYJ. Avionics certainly weren't better, fire control was neither (They were exactly similar infact), prezzurization I can't speak of but I'd guess its the same, just as with the internal configuration.
I don't get what your saying here, as the He-277 was both faster, could go much higher and carry a similar bomb load compared to the B-29..
The 277, if it was built in numbers and if it was put in a position where it "would of" been intercepted would not have been bombing with any accuracy or effectiveness at it higher operating altitudes, as evident in the B-29.The P-58 has a max speed of 436 mph and can't even reach 12km FLYBOYJ, making the He-277 immune to it.
And that's history, something that's not being changed...Forget about the numbers produced, there's a reason for that, Germany was concentrating on fighters fighterbombers by 1944 -45, and the multiple front war coupled with Allied bombing raids put such a strain on the German industry that producing these a/c in large numbers was an impossibility.
So was the B-50, and although the allies were lacking jet bombers they still defeated Germany with their "marginal Air force." Quantity vs. Quality?So ? The He-177, He-277, Ju-390 Me-264 were all ready to go the Germans were on the road to building jet bombers as-well.
What ?!
Soren said:Thats incorrect, the He-277 wasn't just a prototype, it was finished well before wars end, the Fighter-defence program made sure both the He-177 -277 didn't see much action though and is the pure reason for the low service record - trained pilots and fuel was missing. And in the few mission carried out escorts were missing.
Soren said:The B-29 wasn't ahead any way other than having a larger payload.
Soren said:Way more capable ? The He-177 -277 were both structurally more sound
Soren said:Interestingly the Germans had the Ju-390 that beats all three with a max bomb load of over 26,000 kg !! Range is much longer than all of the above as-well, an incredibly long 6,039 miles ! And despite the huge bombload speed is an impressive 505 km/h and the ceiling 6km with full bomb load.
Soren said:This baby even reached the coast of the US during WW2.. (This could only be done with a very light bombload though)
Soren said:Or what about the Me-264, with a speed of 560 km/h, a max bomb-load of 23,000 + kg, a range of 6,250 miles, and a service ceiling of 8km with full bomb-load. A very impressive aircraft, although cancelled with the initiation of the Fighter-defence program.
Soren said:The RAF is a strong contender for the best airforce of 1944 to 1945.
Soren said:The Allies didn't possess as good a tankbuster as the Hs-129, it was better armed, armored and a more stabile gun platform than any Allied ground attack aircraft. The problem with its engines were solved pretty early btw.
Soren said:And to your other comment about the Hs-129's combat effectiveness, well any of the dedicated ground-attack a/c of WW2 were vulnerable unless escorted by fighters - so thats a pretty moot point to make.
Ha ! And thats coming from you !
I can easily back it up, the He-177 was made to be able to dive bomb, hence its structural integrity had to be much higher than a conventional bomber.
I had to use Wikipedia because some of the other sites for the He 277 information were very lacking.
Internal equipment? The B-29 carried "liaison set, radio compass, marker beacon, glide path receiver, localizer receiver, IFF (identification friend or foe) transformer, emergency rescue transmitter, blind bombing radar (on many aircraft), radio countermeasures, and static dischargers."
I'm not saying the He 277 WOULD OF been a formidable aircraft. It was just as fast as the B-29
It's defensive armament was impressive but the B-29 had the most advanced and effective firecontrol system of any WW2 aircraft (and admittingly it did have some teething problems).
That combined with its internal equipment made it the best bomber of WW2 period.
Over all the 277 was close but no cigar....
Agree, but what about range?The top speeds are very close but they don't matter much, what matters is the difference in cruise speed - check that out - The He-277 is a good deal faster than the B-29 at cruise speed; 460 km/h > 350 km/h.
Weren't some of the guns still hand operated in the 177? The only "hand gun" was the tail gunner on the 29 and in some cases that worked to an advantage.I don't believe the B-29 firecontrol system was any better than that carried on the He-177 or He-277, as far as I can see they have exactly the same functions.
AgreeThe B-29 had the advantage of not having its IFF equipment jammed, thats about all that made it superior, the He-177 He-277 both carried pretty much the same equipment with very few exceptions.
Agree there, but both aircraft were still taildraggers, recipes for disaster especially for green pilots. If there was a slight chance of either aircraft coming close to being operational, I think you would of had just as many losses to ground loops as you would of had to enemy fire.I believe that had the LW invested trained men fuel in this machine then it was just as good if not better than the B-29 - but as it looked there just wasn't any fuel or trained crew to spare, and the huge numbers of Allied fighters certainly didn't make life any easier.
And as to Jet-bombers:
Ju-287