Check my posts more carefully - particularly when I stipulated that the Me262 was the Best aircraft (in my opinion) built and flown in combat during WWII and agreed the Ta152 as best piston engine Fighter and Interceptor (not P-51H or Spitfire or Meteor or F4U)
Well I'd certainly like to see where you've said this.
Read carefully when I say the Luftwaffe was the Best AF through 1942 and into 1943.
I agree, and I also agree it wasn't the best in 1944 - 45 but somehow you guys like making it sound like I do, again putting words into my mouth - a very bad habbit of yours Bill!
Then see if you can make that statement. Your opinion - my written record on this forum.
Well considering that I have praised thew F4U as one of the top 3 best fighters of WW2 I'd certainly like you to claim that I am biased again Bill -
Your opinion vs My written record on this forum.
Actually the Tempest and the P38 were equal to the Fw190 in 'All the roles' even though the Tempest was not used as an Interceptor
No they weren't, the Tempest was much less agile than the Fw-190 and so was the P-38, the Tempest couldn't be used at high alt because of poor performance and the P-38 at low alt because of poor performance - the Anton suffered poor high alt performance.
You made these bold comments before including the statement that the LW was deployed 85% on East Front. I debunked that using Price's Luftwaffe Data Book which you have yet to refute other than waving your arms and saying 'You must believe me!".
No I said that 85% of ALL german forces were deployed on the Eastern Front, and ~80-85% of all casualties were as-well.
Well the 'situation' didn't permit the Meteor, P-80 or F8F or P-51H to fly escort either and the Ta152H never flew 'escort' missions to my knowledge - so no, you don't have a basis to make the claim as Best Escort Fighter
Again seemingly oblivious to you the reason for the fact that the Ta-152H never acted as escort or as a high altitude fighter was because of lack of fuel.
LOL - the Pig certainly scored well against both the Dora 9 and other 'more agile' LW fighters on the deck
Really ??! Care to prove that claim ?? Remember we're talking LOW alt here !
- no question about less acceleration on the deck but a superb Attack Fighter, nevertheless.
It dived well could take alot of punishment, plus it featured very good performance at high alt - thats it - at low alt it was a pig, and I've got German test-flight results to back that up as-well.
If this, if that - you are all about 'IF". So, why did Soviets copy B-29 and produce instead of 'superior' He277?
Bad excuse Bill. The B-29 was used because the Russians had a captured example of it, thats why.
Sure, BF-108 Bf-109G-12 - thats two...
Ju 88 and series were excellent a/c but noticably absent in 1944 through 1945 timeframe in Tactical or Strategic Bombing role..
And why the heck do you think ?!! No fighters to protect them or fuel was available !!
On what basis would you describe the Ju 88 series as better than the A-26 or B-26 as Medium Bombers?
Sure, the Ju-88 Ju-188 were faster, could carry more bombs, higher ceiling, and had a longer range than the B-26. The Ju-388 was much faster in both cruise and max speed compared to the A-26 could carry a larger payload, plus it had a MUCH higher ceiling - infact all three LW a/c had a higher ceiling than the A-26.
Cite missions and results please, along with performance with payload.
LoL, you're traying to bore me out of this discussion by me having to look up successful missions !
There's too many to cite on this page !
So, an Air Force with one Fw190D, a Me262 a Ta152 and Ar234 becomes the nominated Best Air Force because of quality - not power? Is this how you have been 'objectively' judging the poll question? That would explain a lot.
Don't be stupid Bill, ONE of each ???? No wonder you see things your way
Do you think the LW would have traded its a/c and pilots for US in 1944? No?
Nope, but it would've happily traded its resources for Allied resources.
You are correct - and the Fw190D-13 and Ta152H and He277 was flawless in the same timeframe? Look up the records for fatal accidents for those a/ in the January 1945-March 1945 timeframe.
No you tell me about these fatal accident please ?? Esp. those suffered by the Dora-13, I'd be very interested in hearing about them please !
:Rolleyes:
The USA had the luxury of withdrawing the P-80 for two months while they fixed the fuel pump problem - but the LW did not.
So the fuel pumps was the only problem ?? Dream on.
check your climb and manueverability comparisons again before making the blanket statement. Cite the facts not your opinion please
Right back at you ! I cited the facts, cause fact is that the Me-262A-1 out-accellerated, out-climbed and out-maneuvered the P-80 in post-war comparative flights made in the US.
Disagree all you wish, facts please
I agree, facts please bill.
I have cited the USAAF Fighter strength available to defeat the Luftwaffe over Germany between January 1944 and April 1944 and the available single engine fighters for LuftFlotte Reich and you are completely wrong for the airbattles over Germany with respect to USAAF fighters available to fight LW Fighters. Quit using 5:1 or 8:1 figures until you cite the facts - The 8th AF P-38s and P-51s plus 354FG on loan from the 9th AF was the only Fighter force capable of intercepting German attacks past Frankfurt in that time frame. It is a matter of public record how many were available for both sides.
No Bill, all you have cited is the number of a/c available to the LW, NOT how many could actually leave the ground ! Remember you need fuel to go fly buddy
The number of a/c available to the LW in the air was FAR less than that available to the Allies, so yes 5:1 - 8:1 scenarios were very common, esp. for the dedicated fighters.
No I don't, not really. My thesis was "From late 1943 to the present, American airpower was/is the best" . I said with near impunity - and that comment was incorrect for perhaps 10 missions over Germany from December 1943 through the end of the war
Huh ?? Look up the bomber losses please - I certainly wouldn't refer to that as showing any signs of impunity!
If you wish to deny the statement for the other 400+ missions it is ok with me but you might seem pretty foolish.
Deny ? No need for that, one only has to look up the bomber losses.
As to the carrier fleets - there was no real purpose other than placing a few on convoy duty to assist in the eradication of the U Boat fleet.. ah, you don't happen to have an example of the US Navy losing a capital ship to U-Boats do you, particularly the 'vulnerable' carrier? I guess the German U-Boat wasn't all that effective in late 1943 and 1944 and 1945? Oh, I know - it was all about numbers not 'quality'
Again you don't know what you're talking about - by late 43 to wars end the German U-boats weren't operating near any US carriers.
LOL Soren. So, the USAAF 'merely scratched the Germans compared to what the USSR and UK had done"?? Yes the RAF bombed hell out of Germany and forced round the clock approach to defense. Do you wish to present a thesis that the LW devoted more or even same fighter reaction to RAF bombing as USAAF from late 1943 onward? Do you wish to postulate that even the RAF and VVS COMBINED, destroyed as many German fighters as the USAAF? Go for it. Facts please. I suspect without proof that the P-51 destroyed more German aircraft in the last 15 months of the war than the the VVS and RAF combined -
LoL, the USSR and UK certainly both caused many more German casualties than the US - the USAAF stood for most of the bombing yes, but the damage caused by the bombing wasn't anywhere near as much as that caused by the war on the eastern front, its not even close ! 80 - 85% of all German casualties were on the Eastern front !
I could be wrong but that number is around 9600.
And that figure is made up of pure guess-work and claims, the accurate figure is far less.
No, but it did NOT destroy the Luftwaffe Fighter Arm nor did it inflict as many casualties as USAAF all by itself from Dec 1943 forward.
Combined the RAF VSS certainly did as much damage to the LW as the USAAF.
Excuse me but I haven't yet noticed that quality about you
And I'm afraid I haven't seen that quality about you either - esp. regarding you complete lack of knowledge on the shortage of fuel in Germany by 1944 -45 and its consequences.
Look up the numbers Soren. Just four of 21 Air Forces within just the USAAF dropped more tonnage and destroyed more German A/c than the RAF and VVS combined from Jan 1944 through the end of the war.. but you think it 'close' choice between US and RAF? And you think you are objective?
Its all about numbers again Bill, the USAAF was present in more numbers. And I'd really like to see you back up the claim that the USAAF destroyed more LW a/c than the RAF VSS did combined with reliable sources accurate figures instead of claimed ones.