Why do you think that is funny. The Finnish Airforce was actually highly successful.
Best WWII Air-Force
- Thread starter Desert Fox
- Start date
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FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
As stated earlier, for what they had and what they accomplished they must be on the top 3. I know their Buffaloes had the best kill ratio of the war, it wouldn't surprise me if the same is said for their Air Force...
Nonskimmer
Captain
Definitely an accomplishment. That small, relatively ill-equipped bunch of men held the line for a quite a while against the vastness of the Red Army/VVS. Let's not forget their deeds of the Winter War of 1939/40. Anyone who'd laugh at the Finns should look up a little history me thinks.
mkloby
Senior Master Sergeant
The Finnish armed forces' performance was a testament to human tenacity and determination. By all measures they should have been easily brushed aside, yet they ran an amazingly successful campaign - although they simply could not overcome the sheer numbers.
Erich
the old Sage
the best air force ? my gosh so many possibilities and with different tactics involved, offense, defense and .... ? too much
Keine Ahnung
Keine Ahnung
I agree. That is why I asked if he was laughing.
Who is voting for Luftwaffe???
Yes they had their highlights but to say they where the best??
Still contend that the RAF put them through such a mauling during the BOB that they never fully recovered. Had to go and "fight a proper war" in their words after getting their sorry asses kicked. By the end of 1941 monthly production of British aircraft alone surpased the Luftwaffes.
Not denying they were a dangerous opponent after the BOB. But look at the disastous course pilot training took. Even upto 1942 it was still conducted in a relaxed atmosphere with skining jollies untill the demand for replacement pilots would cause the numbers of hours training to dwindle to a fraction of any allied pilots. Instructors and student fritted away in doomed operations. Night fighters with their specialist experience used in daylight defence. Goring as its leader. Performance drop of the 190 at altitude. Failure of leadership to gear up production earlier etc, etc.
If this poll was 1944-45 I would go with US airforce as its equipment was carefully planned, fighters with high ceiling and range, bomber formations with great strength of defensive armament, large bomb load and penatration. A bombing strategy that would force the Luftwaffe to fight and cripple the economy. decent training program. A competant Tacticical airforce with close cooperation with ground and air forces etc, etc. But this is a vote for the entire war so I am still undecided.
Finns put up a good show no matter who they fought. How did the Yugoslav airforce get on with their 20 licensce built Hurris?
Yes they had their highlights but to say they where the best??
Still contend that the RAF put them through such a mauling during the BOB that they never fully recovered. Had to go and "fight a proper war" in their words after getting their sorry asses kicked. By the end of 1941 monthly production of British aircraft alone surpased the Luftwaffes.
Not denying they were a dangerous opponent after the BOB. But look at the disastous course pilot training took. Even upto 1942 it was still conducted in a relaxed atmosphere with skining jollies untill the demand for replacement pilots would cause the numbers of hours training to dwindle to a fraction of any allied pilots. Instructors and student fritted away in doomed operations. Night fighters with their specialist experience used in daylight defence. Goring as its leader. Performance drop of the 190 at altitude. Failure of leadership to gear up production earlier etc, etc.
If this poll was 1944-45 I would go with US airforce as its equipment was carefully planned, fighters with high ceiling and range, bomber formations with great strength of defensive armament, large bomb load and penatration. A bombing strategy that would force the Luftwaffe to fight and cripple the economy. decent training program. A competant Tacticical airforce with close cooperation with ground and air forces etc, etc. But this is a vote for the entire war so I am still undecided.
Finns put up a good show no matter who they fought. How did the Yugoslav airforce get on with their 20 licensce built Hurris?
SpitfireKing
Airman 1st Class
Never mind what I said,I was thinking somthing else...
I knew the finns were highly successful but highest kill ratio of the war? Better than the Corsairs 11:1 ?
Another post says the Buff had a ratio of 26:1.. difficult to believe. Are there any built in means of inflation ie. lots of transport aircraft shot down, ground "kills"?
I'd like to read more about that..
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Nope - the Finns really stuck it to the Ruskies and I doubt any of their claims are inflated.
Finnish Air Force History
syscom3
Pacific Historian
Put it into perspective.
The Finns didnt have any designs of their own, no manufacturing capacity and didn't employ them in massive numbers like the other main combatants.
The US dwarfs all the other powers when it is subjectively compared in 1945.
The Finns didnt have any designs of their own, no manufacturing capacity and didn't employ them in massive numbers like the other main combatants.
The US dwarfs all the other powers when it is subjectively compared in 1945.
I'd vote for the R(X)AF and SAAF - never mind what the X stands for or whether it is there at all, the main thing is to keep in mind that the RAF and the Dominion Air Forces should really be (other than in a few cases such as the RNZAF in the Pacific) considered as ONE big multi-role, multi-speciality Air Force with some of the world's most effective aircraft, and some of the world's best air and ground crews, not to mention tactics of all kinds. Sorry for the Yanks, but they don't come close. Tonnage may be one thing, but it helps if the tonnage in question actually hits the target, and not just the general area. Forget the Luftwaffe - no strategic capability.
Spitfire, Typhoon, Tempest
Mosquito, Beaufighter, Meteor
Lancaster
Says it all, really.
OK, you have to admire the Finns for fighter ability, but they had no long-range potential for doing the enemy serious evil, either.
Spitfire, Typhoon, Tempest
Mosquito, Beaufighter, Meteor
Lancaster
Says it all, really.
OK, you have to admire the Finns for fighter ability, but they had no long-range potential for doing the enemy serious evil, either.
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
Although I appreciate your sentiments about the commonwealth Air Forces there is no way they had the ability or tools to compete with the US . I also don't believe the leadership of the commonwealth forces was on par with the USAAF/USN . I will concede that the special purpose units like 617 or the units running out of Tempsford were better then the Usaaf but once the US got moving in 42 there was no equal
Cyrano
Airman 1st Class
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pbfoot, the question was "best", not "biggest" - there was no way that the individual quality of USAAF, USN and USMC air and ground crews were as good as their Empire equivalents! Just look at navigation; during the day, boxes of B-17s or B-24s were navigated by the lead aircraft only, with the other navigators in the formation following. RAF and Dominion aircraft, Lancs, Halibags or Stirlings by this time, were navigating individually to the target - admittedly with some pretty sophisticated aids which the Americans did not use by day - and achieving similar or better results.
The leadership orientation of 8th USAAF consisted essentially in ignoring everything the RAF had already learnt about flying over Germany in daylight, and getting huge numbers of men killed uselessly while they learnt the lessons again. That changed in 1944 with the advent of the P-51 in sufficient numbers, and with the decline in capacity of the Luftwaffe, but it was still a case of mindless obstinacy at the cost of thousands of lives. They had much the same approach to ground tactics, too, I seem to remember. Not the best air force. Sorry.
The leadership orientation of 8th USAAF consisted essentially in ignoring everything the RAF had already learnt about flying over Germany in daylight, and getting huge numbers of men killed uselessly while they learnt the lessons again. That changed in 1944 with the advent of the P-51 in sufficient numbers, and with the decline in capacity of the Luftwaffe, but it was still a case of mindless obstinacy at the cost of thousands of lives. They had much the same approach to ground tactics, too, I seem to remember. Not the best air force. Sorry.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
The US pilots and aircrew were just as capable as their empire equivalents.
The US pilots in the PTO and CBI were quite capable navigators in going on missions over the vast reaches of the pacific. In fact, the longest missions of the war were flown by indivdual B24's at night, hitting a a relatively small target 1600 miles from base, something the RAF never accomplished. And youre a bit mistaken that the navigators in the "box's" were along for the ride, as they all had to know their positions in case they were seperated from the formation or had to take the lead.
Yes, and the B29's brought that a level higher.
In 1941 and 1942, the lesson from the RAF was to not send lightly armed or armoured bombers, flying at middle altitudes, in small formations. The B17 and B24 were going to do things different. Through out 1943, they were doing fine, untill the LW began hammering them with new eqmt and tactics.
Tactics were worked out by both AF's and the end result was aerial supremecy. Remember, untill the forward operating bases in France were established, it was only the AAF bringing the fight to the LW.
Nikki, look at it this way..... the US had an abviously better industrial base in which to design and build aircraft. And when it came to logistics, we were magnitudes above everyone. For pilot skill, the Empire had hundreds of excellent pilots. The US had thousands of "good" pilots of which hundreds became excellent pilots. Just from shear numbers alone, the US rated above the Empire in being able to produce aircrews for the planes we built.
Great I can see this now. A pissing match at whos country has the biggest balls. Oh yeah my country can kick your countries ass... Oh yeah my countries daddy is bigger than your countries daddy...
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
I can see syscoms agruments as being very valid ones... I dont think there really is a way of determining which Air Force was the better, as each had their own attributes...
But I will say this... Without the aid, manpower and determination of the 8th, 9th and all the other American Air Corps in the ETO, the Western Allies would have been in a different battle for the skies over Germany...
But I will say this... Without the aid, manpower and determination of the 8th, 9th and all the other American Air Corps in the ETO, the Western Allies would have been in a different battle for the skies over Germany...
