Best WWII Air-Force
- Thread starter Desert Fox
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FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
syscom3
Pacific Historian
I hope that guy was trying to be funny, otherwise I'd say he was worthy of a 24 hour suspension for stupidity.
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Im in agreement with u sys...
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Me too...
I think we should redeem him if he voluntarily hits himself in the head with a claw hammer.
I think we should redeem him if he voluntarily hits himself in the head with a claw hammer.
He could have gone to the Udvar Hazy center (Smithsonian @Dulles) and at least gotton a photo of the real thing
Kugisho Okha 22
Kugisho Okha 22
Attachments
I cant believe that guy! Wow! I allways think I have heard it all and then someone else comes along!Udvar Hazy Center is great. Went there on vacation a few years ago when I got back from Iraq.
JG57_Rall
Airman
Jackson,
Your certainly right about that. Did you know that his position was not even a miltary rank but a political appointment. Of course the problems with the Luftwaffe were not soley his fault. Hitlers interference in the development of the Me-262 was a prime example of the ineptitude of German leadership and their lack of understanding of what real air power is.
BTW it was Adolf Galland not Rudolf!
About the Japanese Suicide bomb. A friend of mine is designing one for CFS1. Its not ready for release yet. But, I tested it and its a fun plane to fly.
And I thought maybe you guys might like to see a pic of one of the german sicide planes.
Rall
Your certainly right about that. Did you know that his position was not even a miltary rank but a political appointment. Of course the problems with the Luftwaffe were not soley his fault. Hitlers interference in the development of the Me-262 was a prime example of the ineptitude of German leadership and their lack of understanding of what real air power is.
BTW it was Adolf Galland not Rudolf!
About the Japanese Suicide bomb. A friend of mine is designing one for CFS1. Its not ready for release yet. But, I tested it and its a fun plane to fly.
And I thought maybe you guys might like to see a pic of one of the german sicide planes.
Rall
Attachments
The Luftwaffe never used any suicide planes as far as I know.
Erich
the old Sage
there were NO German suicide planes, this is a bogus V-1 experiment. It was talked and even in the planning stages. If anything suicidal it was the stupid Rammkommando Elbe mission and the last of the silly missions against the Oder bridges to keep the Soviets out
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Well, there was Kommando Elbe...
Erich
the old Sage
but the original plan was not to be suicide. it is the same with the written document for the Sturmgruppen pilots that the Gruppenkommandeurs did not force their pilots to sign ....... at all costs bring down a heavy bomber even by ramming as the last cause. The pilots were too valuable the a/c were not. Kornatski who came up with the insane idea later became leader of II.Sturm/JG 4 falling in their second mission so it is just as well the guy was a certified kook.
the for the Rammkommando Elbe it was volunteer to shave the tails off the B-17's and bail out. there may have been 4 kills if that on the April 45 mission most were shot down as they were only armed with mg 131's and no cannons. I've had very lengthy conversations with my friend F.M. who was part of this crazy idea and who has a wealth of info on the mission and the participants
the for the Rammkommando Elbe it was volunteer to shave the tails off the B-17's and bail out. there may have been 4 kills if that on the April 45 mission most were shot down as they were only armed with mg 131's and no cannons. I've had very lengthy conversations with my friend F.M. who was part of this crazy idea and who has a wealth of info on the mission and the participants
Yes but with that the pilots were supposed to bail out before impact with the bomber. The Germans were not keen on suicide like the Japanese.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Sure seems like it huh.
Received a message from someone who read my comment saying the Red Army with its huge size was essential in the balance attained by the allied nations to in the end defeat Germany.
He told me that in all 61 divisions were fielded by the U.S. Army in the ETO alone, which is by no means a "small" presence. I agree, and also those divisions were used to open new fronts in North Africa/Mediterranean and later in Normany, giving a great aid to the Red Army.
Still, the ones willing to have whatever number of KIA/MIAs were the soviets, but the remark is accurate and welcome.
He told me that in all 61 divisions were fielded by the U.S. Army in the ETO alone, which is by no means a "small" presence. I agree, and also those divisions were used to open new fronts in North Africa/Mediterranean and later in Normany, giving a great aid to the Red Army.
Still, the ones willing to have whatever number of KIA/MIAs were the soviets, but the remark is accurate and welcome.
I never dimish Russia's role in final victory in WW2 (not saying you are). But to say they were "willing to have whatever number of KIA/MIA" not sure if I 100% agree with that or I would perhaps ask you to explain that comment in more detail. I think they were forced to suffer like they did do to the nature of their army, AF and the fact that the Eastern front was so brutal, it was kill or be killed.
It is an interesting idea to think about actually, why was it so brutal compared to the western front (list reasons why I think but lets see what others think also)?
renrich
Chief Master Sergeant
A lot of people seem to think that the BOB was the sole reason that Hitler gave up any plan to invade England. I don't mean to deprecate what the RAF accomplished in the BOB. The effort was magnificent but they did not decimate the Luftwaffe. The Luftwaffe was designed as a tactical air force and was not really suited to the task it undertook. The factor that saved Britain from invasion was the age-old English channel and the Royal Navy. In 1940 the German Navy had not the ability to protect an invasion fleet from being sunk by the Royal Navy as long as the RAF could put up even a small amont of support for the Navy. If the RAF during the BOB had been in dire enough straits they could have withdrawn the bulk of their fighters out of range of the Luftwaffe until they were needed to help counter a cross channel invasion. Even without air support it is not a foregone conclusion the Royal Navy couldn't have defeated a German invasion force. I think the German planners realised this and the cool headed ones always realised they had not much of a chance to invade the British Isles.
That has been discussed indepth before renrich. The saviour of the British Isles in 1940 was the English Channel and RAF. The Royal Navy did not need to partcipate because the Royal Air Force deprived Germany of the air support.
In my opinion there are only two air forces that could be in the running for number one spot; that would be the USAAF and RAF. Even disregarding the actions of these two forces they provide the framework for a well-rounded, well-organised air force.
Both the USAAF and RAF had tactical and strategic force in mind. This generated effective ground support for troops and devestating strategic bombardment. No other air force provided strategic arms like these two did and, in fact, no other air force except the Luftwaffe provided tactical organisation on the level of the 9th US Air Force and 2nd Tactical Air Force.
Taking the tactical side alone the USAAF and RAF provided much better support to their troops than any other air force. And could operate in the battlefield for a longer time due to the two party movement system with the battlelines. The Luftwaffe never did this so when a group moved, it would all have to move which took it out of the battle for a few, maybe crucial, days.
No other air force had the organisation of these tactical forces. The Ninth Air Force, as well as 2nd TAF, were organised in a manner that left them seperate from any strategic attacks on the enemy. Given transport, light bombers, medium bombers, fighter-bombers and fighters these units were from one command that co-ordinated the operations to near perfection.
While the tactical side offered pure tactical support, the strategic arm of these forces act seperately but with equal skill and determination. It is this strategic arm that no other air force could match. Without the heavy bombers with doctrine, organisation and fighter escort to support - no other air force could be recommended for No.1.
The logistics provided to both these forces was immense and amazing. Both countries kept their forces supplied throughout the globe from Duxford to Ramat David to Rangoon. From Los Angeles to Kiska to Iwo Jima.
No other air force could do this. No other air force rounded itself to the task of strategic and tactical support, no other air force operated in every task in every theatre.
So, it's close between them both. But I have to vote for the USAAF because while it was behind the RAF in 1939 - overall it achieved something the RAF never did. The USAAF operated both tactical and strategic arms in every theatre it was fighting in, the RAF only operated tactically except in North-West Europe.
In my opinion there are only two air forces that could be in the running for number one spot; that would be the USAAF and RAF. Even disregarding the actions of these two forces they provide the framework for a well-rounded, well-organised air force.
Both the USAAF and RAF had tactical and strategic force in mind. This generated effective ground support for troops and devestating strategic bombardment. No other air force provided strategic arms like these two did and, in fact, no other air force except the Luftwaffe provided tactical organisation on the level of the 9th US Air Force and 2nd Tactical Air Force.
Taking the tactical side alone the USAAF and RAF provided much better support to their troops than any other air force. And could operate in the battlefield for a longer time due to the two party movement system with the battlelines. The Luftwaffe never did this so when a group moved, it would all have to move which took it out of the battle for a few, maybe crucial, days.
No other air force had the organisation of these tactical forces. The Ninth Air Force, as well as 2nd TAF, were organised in a manner that left them seperate from any strategic attacks on the enemy. Given transport, light bombers, medium bombers, fighter-bombers and fighters these units were from one command that co-ordinated the operations to near perfection.
While the tactical side offered pure tactical support, the strategic arm of these forces act seperately but with equal skill and determination. It is this strategic arm that no other air force could match. Without the heavy bombers with doctrine, organisation and fighter escort to support - no other air force could be recommended for No.1.
The logistics provided to both these forces was immense and amazing. Both countries kept their forces supplied throughout the globe from Duxford to Ramat David to Rangoon. From Los Angeles to Kiska to Iwo Jima.
No other air force could do this. No other air force rounded itself to the task of strategic and tactical support, no other air force operated in every task in every theatre.
So, it's close between them both. But I have to vote for the USAAF because while it was behind the RAF in 1939 - overall it achieved something the RAF never did. The USAAF operated both tactical and strategic arms in every theatre it was fighting in, the RAF only operated tactically except in North-West Europe.
