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t the War of Northern Aggression
The Grands alleged firepower advanatages have been discussed and rehashed many times. There is no doubt that the garand did confer additional firepower to the inidividual Infantryman, but for the squad as a whole, the Grand has been estimated as providing only about 20% more firepower to the squad overall. this is because as a a fraction of the squads total firepower potential, the rifle element only adds a relatively small proportion
Demetrious, very good. I have not heard that one before.
If you're talking about your standard US Rifle squad, which, to my memory, had 10 riflemen, one BAR gunner, and one with a Thompson SMG... are you saying that the single BAR and Thompson outweighed the ten riflemen?
I was thinking the same thing. The composition of the US squads did change during the war with the number of BARs increasing. With other countries the squad automatic/LMG did provide the the majority of the fire power. 8 Grarands do but out more firepower than 8 bolt action rifles but the were few LMG that had less firepower than a BAR.
Not all early war US squads had Garands, at least in training and initial planning.
If you're talking about your standard US Rifle squad, which, to my memory, had 10 riflemen, one BAR gunner, and one with a Thompson SMG... are you saying that the single BAR and Thompson outweighed the ten riflemen?
I understand that the BAR, with a cut down stock was quite effective when used by Clyde Barrow and others. Kidding aside I never quite understood the efficacy of the BAR. It always seemed to me that a skilled rifleman with a Garand could almost equal a BAR because of being more accurate. However, the BAR was still in everyday use in Korea.
In 1959, in basic training, we did an exercise called line of skirmishers. This was a squad in line abreast about five yards apart advancing across a field firing the Garand from the hip. I thought that this seemed like a good way to hunt quail but a good way to get killed in a war if the enemy had cover and automatic weapons. To me, it smacked of War of Northern Aggression tactics. In 1959, we still qualified on the KD range but also fired at pop up targets at indeterminate ranges in what was called Trainfire.
Machine Gun Kelly also made a name for himself with the weapon.).
Might be I was thinking about someone else.I thought he did it with a Tommy Gun. Heard the guy really didn't deserve the name "Machine Gun Kelly". It was given to him by his girlfriend (who was a real pain in the ass type) as an attempt to make him more than he really was. Guy was more of a talker than a doer.
Something of a Macbeth type character, he wasn't driven, she was.
A better comparison would be to compare the firepower generated by the rifle element to that of a true support gun, like the 30 cal or better still, the MG42. The MG 42 can generate up to 1200 rpm of controlled and aimed fire, over a distance of up to 1000 yards or so, though typically this was more like 500 yards.
Not really, at the squad level every MG had a limited ammunition supply. In the case of the BAR it was around 800rds carried in Magazines or bandoleers to reload the magazines. In the case of the Bren it was the 750 rounds in the magazines ( or less depending on how the magazines were filled) plus what ever the riflemen would give up to reload magazines. For the Germans at 6lbs per belt of 100rounds or so it was whatever weight of ammunition the squad was willing to carry to support the MG. At 15rps for the MG 34 and 20rps for the MG 42 even 800-1000rounds doesn't last long even fired in bursts and allowing for barrel changes.The BAR could never really fulfil that role mostly because of the limited ammunition supply. It was incapable of laying down a continuous stream of fire to support the advanacing (or retreating) Infantry. This was the great strength of the German MG development....what we now call the GPMG, it could fulfil the role of both support and squad based weapons, and gave them an enormous advantage in firepower as a result.
For the allies, the idea of a support MG had to be retained as a separate unit, in the case of the British it was the Vickers, in the case of the US it was the 30 cal. Even though the Allied ideas on MGs were not as advanced as the german, the same basic truths still apply, the majority of the firepower for the squad came from its MG support (the fact that the support for the squad was from outside the squad is not that important). The allied squads, as I indicated previously retained an outdated concept that it was the rifle that provided the majority of the firepower for the squad)
Might be I was thinking about someone else.
Just as an aside, according to an article in the "American Rifleman" the US Marines in the Pacific obtained 30 cal air cooled MGs from wrecked(?) planes which had a higher ROF than the A6, equipped them with a shoulder stock and bipod and increased their firepower a great deal. According to Dean, that gun weighed around 24 pounds and had a ROF of 1200 RPM.