bf-109 black 9 G-6 JG302 July 2, 1944

Discussion in 'Aircraft Requests' started by 4232041, Jun 27, 2011.

  1. 4232041

    4232041 New Member

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    Looking for info on bf-109 black 9 G-6 Jg 4./302 w.nr.441656 July 2 ,1944

    Paint scheme and markings

    Thanks for any assistance
     
  2. B-17engineer

    B-17engineer Active Member

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    Lt. Wilhelm Hallenberger
    -June 16th, 1944 he claimed a B-24
    -June 27th he claimed a B-17
    July 2nd 1944 he claimed a B-17
    -Lt. Wilhelm Hallenberger, 4.staffel, was wounded and was forced to stary in the hospital for some time. He flew Bf 109 G-6 "schwarze 9" W.Nr.441656 that day. This was on July 21st, 1944.

    Kracker Luftwaffe Pilot Archive: all known Luftwaffe German pilots 1939 - 1945 H states

    Magnus Report. 8 bombers. WIA 21 July, 1944 by bomber return fire and hospitalized at Gmunden. One known victory, his 2nd, a B-24 S of Galanta, 50 km E of Pressburg, on 16 June, 1944. His 3rd victory, a B-17 near Budapest on 27 June, 1944. His 4th, a B-17 N of Kaposvar on 2 July, 1944. Two more B-24's, one N of Raab and the other at Kormorn 7 July, 1944. A 7th, a P-38 at Pressburg Austria on 16 July, 1944. An 8th, a B-17 S of Munich on 19 July, 1944. A 9th, a B-17 at Wels on 21 July, 1944 (Perry Claims). Deceased 29 April, 1944.

    As for pictures I'll have a a look in a book I have on JG 302 and will get back to you.
     
  3. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    Well done H. :thumbright:
     
  4. B-17engineer

    B-17engineer Active Member

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    I found a picture of black 9 but its from I/302 :(
     
  5. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Good work H. There's a very good chance the overall colour scheme would be the same, with just the Gruppe bars being different.
     
  6. B-17engineer

    B-17engineer Active Member

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    Alright then I'll scan it a bit later!
     
  7. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    No horizontal black bar. please check Willi Reschkes book on JG 301/302. the 109G-6's are typical 1944 two toned greys with RLM 76 Blue-grey undersides. there is no Reich defense band applied. Balkenkreuz is grey/black with white surrounding it. swastika is black with white outline. Spinner could have the typical spiralschnauze ordered up for all Reich units in July of 44 or could be the same colour as the fuselage in grey(s). later war canopy installed. 4th staffel was added to I. gruppe as it needed a high-altitude staffel which again was made up with light gunned G-6's the other 3 staffels were cannon birds. the result this date was that 4th staaffel was nearly obliterated by Mustangs, also it is most likley incorrect that I./JG 302 took on B-17's as well as B-24's in it's claims listing, it should be one or the other.
     
  8. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    No pics of Black 9 in Reschke's book. Hallenberger did claim a B-17 but Reschke says it was likely while on his way back to Gotzendorf. Maybe a straggler from another force. All other claims by JG 302 that day were Libs.
     
  9. 4232041

    4232041 New Member

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    The B-17 claimed on July 2,1944 was my Father's out of Foggia. The crew spent the rest of the war in respective staglufts.

    I am looking into the paint scheme of the 109.
     
  10. B-17engineer

    B-17engineer Active Member

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    Would you like me to post the picture I found of a black 9 from 1./302 ?
     
  11. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    just to make this not as easy as it appears, re-read my posting above. 4th staffel was engaged with P-51's not B-24's there is not a listing of B-17's shot down by the unit even if Kracker Archiv's states so and Willi makes a side mention of two sentences. the 15th AF could easily have been engaged by Hungarian 109G-6's this date as they were also defending the area, as well as II./JG 27. I refer to what 4th staffel was equipped with as to armament to make this statement, a single 2cm in the nose with two mg 131's is not a good arm arrangement to tackle any US bombers.

    Harrison if you are making mention of page 84 in Reschkes book as Schwarze 9 please look again the number is not black.
     
  12. B-17engineer

    B-17engineer Active Member

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    Not sure what it is then....im color blind so my perception of colors sucks even black and white pictures :lol:
     
  13. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    the shape of the 9 is probably correct but appears red or yellow with a black outline. don't feel bad Harrison I am partially colour blind as well.
     
  14. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I agree it's not black. Caption says it's Diecke's rig and he was in 3 Staffel so likely yellow?
     
  15. 4232041

    4232041 New Member

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    The b-17 was returning from alternate target Vinkovci Marshalling Yards. Aimus Fuzito had been primary.#1 engine was feathered prior to arriving target and #4 was on fire from additional strain. Hit by flack ne of Lake Ballatan. Hit by 3 109's engine 3 knocked out. 109's routed by p-38's . fire on #4 flared up order to bail out . on ground 5 miles from Yugoslavian border. Plane came down south of Sellye. Received pictures of wreck with Bela Szilbeck's grandmother standing next to tail.
     
  16. 4232041

    4232041 New Member

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    Would you please post the pic.
    Thanks
     
  17. B-17engineer

    B-17engineer Active Member

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  18. 4232041

    4232041 New Member

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    Yes if you would. Thanks
     
  19. Erich

    Erich the old Sage
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    you're positive it was not the Hungarian squadron which attacked the B-17 ?
     
  20. 4232041

    4232041 New Member

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    My father's diary starts with the morning of July 2,1944. It ends when he was liberated at the end of the war in Europe. He mentions why his plane fell behind and being attacked by 109's. MACR,s from 2 other planes in mission mention the 109's attacking the b-17. In 1998 Bela Szilbek of of Gvor Hungary sent a letter to the tail gunner Del Laudner. Bela enclosed pictures of the b-17 crash site. Bela's grandmother is in the picture with other town's people. Bela was tracing the history of the event and in his letter made mention that the bomber was shot down by Lt. Hallenberg in a 109. My Dad passed away in 1978 and did not talk of the war. I remember going to the movies in 1963 to see The Great Escape. This is the camp my father was in. He said the the camp in the movie looked just like the real thing. His diary is very interesting.
    To address your question, no I am not sure.
    Thanks for your time.
     
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