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what books do you own on the K variant... ? JaPo actually has a good title or two covering this 109.
The climb rate graphs on the Kurfurst site don't back up your claim of a climb rate of well over 5000ft/m. The best climb rate shown is just under 25m/s or 4920ft/m and that is for under 1000m height.The Bf-109 K-4 was one of the hottest rides of WW2, boasting a top speed of 716 km/h and a climb rate well over 5,000 ft/min, as-well as being one of the very best turn fighters of the war. The Bf-109 K-4 would easily out-turn any American fighter in the ETO, and it would give the Spitfire a run for its money in both turn climb performance.
There you go, some primary performance figures on the Bf 109K-4.
Kurfurst - Your resource on Messerschmitt Bf 109 performance
Taking a brief look at performance, I can`t see much of a difference. The 109K was a high altitude variant with a high altitude engine and propeller. It was competitive at any altitude.
Looking at a random July 1944 test the P-47D did 420 mph at 30 000 feet, or 676 km/h at 9144m. Cross checking that against the K-4 figures, the latter did 696 km/h at the same altitude.
The climb rate is an odd suggestion for the P-47 was known for everything but for it`s astonishing rate of climb.. I mean, looking at the figures,
the 47D has lower ceiling (yup!), [
The Bf-109 K-4 was one of the hottest rides of WW2, boasting a top speed of 716 km/h and a climb rate well over 5,000 ft/min, as-well as being one of the very best turn fighters of the war. The Bf-109 K-4 would easily out-turn any American fighter in the ETO, and it would give the Spitfire a run for its money in both turn climb performance.
Nope! The P-47D-25 had a service ceiling of 42k (100 f/m ROC). According to your charts the Bf-109K has .6 m/s ROC at 12.75 km (41,830 ft) or roughly equivalent.
No bias on my part but you sure you are not biased.AL,
Yes with the Dünnblatt Schraube, with the thicker std. prop climb went up and speed went down. With the std. prop the climb rate of the Bf-109 was well over 5,000 ft/min - also that kinda says itself with 1,975 HP !
Funny you didn't correct the speed I listed though as its 727 km/h with the Dünnblatt Schraube... Am I detecting bias ???
Range at most economical cruise.Range of the Bf 109F/G/K was 1000 miles, not 350. It had three guns, one 30mm MK 108 and two 13mm MG 131s (the G-10/U4, G-14/U4, G-6/U4 carried the same), whereas the basic G-6, G-14, G-10 and their AS models carried the 20mm MG 151/20 cannon instead of the 30mm.
There you go, some primary performance figures on the Bf 109K-4.
Kurfurst - Your resource on Messerschmitt Bf 109 performance
This does not make much sense to me. Is the contention that the Bf-109K4 high altitude performance is not as good as the P47's?
Crumpp
ME109 K -- Max airspeed: 440 mph at 7500m (about 24,000 feet).
ME109H -- Max airspeed 452 mph at 19,685 feet.
ME109G8++ -- Max airspeed 426 mph at 24,280 feet
ME109G1-G6 -- Max airspeed 386 mph at 22,640 feet
P-47N -- Max airspeed 467 mph at 32,500 feet.
P-47C -- Max airspeed 433 mph at 30,000 feet.
What part of these stats do you not comprehend? As high-altitude fighter go, the P-47, even the P-47C, could beat the stuffing out of ANY variant of the ME-109 at altitudes above about 28,000 feet.
The 109K wasn`t a 'stripped down, point defense' version. It was, basically, a normal fighter like the 109G with an aerodynamically refined airframe and a later, improved high altitude engine. Actually it`s the heaviest version, but the difference is not particularly great compared to other 109G models. Like all 109s, it`s benefitted from the base concept of combining a small, light airframe with a powerful engine.
I fail to see any climb advantage for the P-47N. The figures show only up to 28k feet, or 8500 meter, where it does, and 14 000 lbs weight, something like 2200 fpm, or about 11.2 m/sec. Corresponding figure for the 109K is 11.4m/sec, the same for all practical purposes. Below that altitude the climb advantage of the 109K is pronounced. OTOH, the P-47N has speed advantage in the extreme altitude regions thanks to it`s sizeable turbocharger. Up to the most common altitudes however, the 109K holds some slight speed advantage, and considerable climb rate advantage.
Overall, I cannot see great difference, certainly not anything to justify any great claims of superiority, expect perhaps when it came to manouveribility it the turning plane - the P-47 wasn`t particularly hot in that regard, but it had great controllability in the lateral axis.
Basically, the two aircraft display typical qualities of a lightweight, high powered interceptor and a heavier, long range fighter with high fuel capacity. The former sports high performance and agility, high caliber weapons, the latter`s greatest virtue is it`s operational radius.
One trick the poster is using
I do recall the flight simm analysis of the K varient suggested that the plane was not very nimble at higher speeds due to the airframe being unsuited to the hot-rotted 1850+HP engine. Truth to it?