Bf109G with tall tail and kill/victory markings

Discussion in 'Aircraft Picture Requests' started by kettbo, Sep 30, 2014.

  1. kettbo

    kettbo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    US Army (Ret)
    Location:
    Western Washington, USA
    #1 kettbo, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
    A bit of help requested!

    In mid 1943 the LW had the white tails and white rudders for leaders. Many were well-adorned with victory claim/kill markings and often Knights Cross decoration. I know the tall tails were coming into service with the Bf109G-5/AS and Bf109G-6/AS end of 1943/early 1944. Seems when the tall tails come in, the decorated rudders disappear.

    Official policy or Self-Preservation?

    I have been looking at many of my sources without luck
    Any linkies to pics of tall rudder with kill markings are much appreciated!

    edit: found this for MAJ SPECHT but not the picture(s) the profile comes from
    Aircraft illustration
     
  2. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    47,635
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    A retired military Navigator/ATC, FIS controller
    Location:
    Poland
    As memo serves, in 1943 all fighter planes belonged to the Reichsluftverteidigung (Air Defense of the Reich) got white rudders. Later the entire tails were painted with the colours. So it wasn't a matter of being a leader.
     
  3. kettbo

    kettbo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    US Army (Ret)
    Location:
    Western Washington, USA
    White or yellow tail or camouflage Immaterial. Still looking for more tall tailed Bf109s with kill markings!
     
  4. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    51,156
    Likes Received:
    847
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Adelaide Sth. Aust.
    I know of 2 G-10's will dig them out...Bf109G-10 White 5 and....Yellow 2 I think?
     
  5. kettbo

    kettbo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    US Army (Ret)
    Location:
    Western Washington, USA
    Bring it on WAYNE! Any related info also appreciated!
     
  6. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    51,156
    Likes Received:
    847
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Adelaide Sth. Aust.
    George, here are a couple for you,

    First is White 5, Bf109G-10/U4 W.Nr 611048 of II/JG52 with 7 victories.
    Second Yellow 2 Bf109G10/U4 W.nr 612XXX also of II?JG52 with 2 barely visible kill markings at the top of the rudder
    Third is Double Chevron Bf109G-6 W.Nr. 411960 of IV/JG5 Hptm. Franz Dorr with 128 victories

    2 others I know of and have, are Friedrich Karl Muller Bf109K? 30 victories on rudder and.....Kurt Welter I think also Bf109K-4? these 2 I also need to find.

    Sources for 1 2 Luftwaffe over Czech territory Messerschmitt Bf109g-10/U4 by Japo
    for 3 from the internet, but I have it in Eismeerjager JG5 by Eric Mombeek
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
  7. kettbo

    kettbo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    US Army (Ret)
    Location:
    Western Washington, USA
    THANKS WAYNE! I thought that I was chasing UNICORNS! I appreciate you digging and finding these pictures!
     
  8. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    51,156
    Likes Received:
    847
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Adelaide Sth. Aust.
    You're welcome found the other 2 also will get them posted too...
     
  9. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    23,053
    Likes Received:
    994
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Animal Control Officer
    Location:
    Southern New Jersey
    I think that by the time these modified tail Bf 109s were appearing on the frontlines, personal markings were not a priority and weren't applied many times. That may be the reason you don't find many of them.
     
  10. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    51,156
    Likes Received:
    847
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Adelaide Sth. Aust.
    and here are those other 2 tall tails, Freidrich Karl Mullers 30 victory tail which still survives and also Kurt Welters rudder, both could be G-10's or K-4's there are references to both.

    Sources:JaPo Bf109K-4 Camo and Marking and Luftwaffe rudder Markings Karl Ries
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    47,635
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    A retired military Navigator/ATC, FIS controller
    Location:
    Poland
Loading...

Share This Page