Black Widow vs Amerikabomber

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Poor Old Spike, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. Poor Old Spike

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #1 Poor Old Spike, Mar 4, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
    Would night-flying Amerikabombers have got through the US defences?

    "I completely lack the bombers capable of round-trip flights to New York with a 5-ton bomb load.
    I would be extremely happy to possess such a bomber which would at last stuff the mouth of arrogance across the sea."-Hermann Goering 1938

    Goering1943.jpg



    amerbomb.jpg



    amerikabombr.jpg


    The Germans had an atomic bomb program...
    A nazi study of an atomic bomb blast on Manhattan.
    Oct43LuftmapA-bomb.jpg



    P-61 Black Widow nose radar
    northrop-p61-blackwidow_11.jpg


    Black Widows
    7348220458_3a07f0a3d9_z.jpg
     
  2. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Messages:
    20,140
    Likes Received:
    54
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Washington State
    Not gonna happen with that machine, those logistics, that 'bomb' and that Ahole.
     
  3. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2004
    Messages:
    7,911
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    IT Nerd
    Location:
    Dallas, Tx Jubail, Saudi Arabia
    They may have been able to get through once or twice, but the AR 264 just didn't exist in "fearful" numbers. And I would imagine "IF" they had got through, it wouldn't take long to have P-61's and night flying P-38's and F4U's all along the East coast.
     
  4. bobbysocks

    bobbysocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,811
    Likes Received:
    181
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    also you are a long way from home.....the road back is even more dangerous...they know you are out there!
     
  5. Poor Old Spike

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Food for thought- B-29's atom-bombed Japan in broad daylight without being intercepted...
     
  6. Jenisch

    Jenisch Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    #6 Jenisch, Mar 4, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
    But not without being noticed...

    Not the best source, but an interesting segment of the Wik article about the Amerika Bomber:

    Very definetely the Americans would respond to a bombing treat from a Nazi superbomber with the P-61 and probably new and more powerful night-fighters. And also with the B-36, if Britain was not longer in the war. It would extremely unlikely however, that the Germans would drop an atomic in NY unless the Americans used the atomic bomb against a major German city.
     
  7. dobbie

    dobbie Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    That single flight might well have been mistaken for a weather aircraft which is why nothing was sent against it.
     
  8. Jenisch

    Jenisch Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    #8 Jenisch, Mar 4, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
    Deleted.
     
  9. Jenisch

    Jenisch Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    #9 Jenisch, Mar 4, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
    Deleted.
     
  10. Poor Old Spike

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #10 Poor Old Spike, Mar 4, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
    But assuming Hitler had got the atom bomb BEFORE America, he'd almost certainly have hit NY with it to force America to surrender or at least negotiate a peace settlement.
    After all, two atomb bombs on Japan made them instantly quit at the drop of a hat.
    Are there any Civilisation players here like me? It's sooooo sweet to get your hands on nukes before your enemies and plaster all their cities with mushroom clouds..:)
     
  11. Poor Old Spike

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Originally Posted by Poor Old Spike: Food for thought- B-29's atom-bombed Japan in broad daylight without being intercepted...

    Yes that's my reading of it, there were only 3 B-29's in each of the atomic strikes, so the Japs didn't think it was worth intercepting them or firing flak at them.
     
  12. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    5,906
    Likes Received:
    853
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Electrical Engineer, Aircraft Restoration
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, California, U.S.A.
    They made three Me 264 Amerika Bombers. How much damage can you DO with 3 planes?

    If they had gotten through even once, the defenses would have been reinforced to a large degree and detection by radar would certainly have been possible since the range was only good at altitude ... not at wave-top height.

    If the Me 264 had been made in numbers, then the issue might have been interesting ... and I think the defense would have made it quite intense for the attackers. 20 bombers met by 500 fighters makes for a really interesting bomb run. Since it wasn't made in numbers and deployed, we never had to stop them n real life during the war.
     
  13. Poor Old Spike

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    With an atom bomb dropped from each, it'd have been goodbye NY, Boston and Washington.
    Before he developed the A-bomb, I'm sure Hitler would have made propaganda raids on American cities with ordinary bombs, they'd have done very little damage to US industry but he'd have LURVED to feed his ego by boasting that he'd bombed America.
    Likewise his V1 flying bombs and V2 rockets did zilch damage to British war production, but he got satisfaction simply from firing them at London, that's how sickos get their kicks.
    Madman Saddam did that by firing Scuds at Israel, they had no effect at all on the Israeli military but doing it gave him a warm fuzzy feeling and made him feel important.
     
  14. Jenisch

    Jenisch Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    #14 Jenisch, Mar 4, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
    Abwehr would need to present reliable information to the F├╝her about America's nuclear project (this is a vital detail, susceptible to fail, and thus even if the Americans do not have the bomb, the Nazis would still be puzzled about the risk of a nuclear counter-attack).

    I suppose you are talking about nuke NY because every other more safe method to compell the Americans to sign peace was already tried. But even so, can you provide details of this scenario. Specifically: who is at war?
     
  15. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    5,906
    Likes Received:
    853
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Electrical Engineer, Aircraft Restoration
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, California, U.S.A.
    #15 GregP, Mar 4, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
    Hey Poor Old Spike,

    Germany didn't HAVE the atomic bomb ... in real life. So it wasn't ever a possibility.

    'What Ifs" can never be won by either side since they deal in fantasy. You are arguing from a position of sceince fiction. But ...

    If they had used ANY of the weapons available in real life, the outcome was forgone.

    Alas, they didn't and couldn't. Never happened and so ... never could since the time and year are well in the past. The Axis lost and went extinct as a political entity. If you tried to resurect it today, the WORLD would be against you and they are MUCH stronger now than they were in 1939.

    The Amerika Bomber was nothing in real life but a VERY interesting prototype aircraft that was never selected for production but would have been the only strategic bomber the Third Reich ever had if it had been made in numbers.
     
  16. gjs238

    gjs238 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    107
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Or was it the threat of Communist invasion?
     
  17. Poor Old Spike

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Nazis dabbled in atomic experiments all through the war, here the Allies overun and dismantle Nazi nuclear equipment at Haigerloch in April 1945.

    German_Experimental_Pile_-_Haigerloch_-_April_1945.jpg
     
  18. Jenisch

    Jenisch Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    It's not my area, but members like Stona can explain you this. The fact is that at least from what is avaliable of evidence, the Nazis were not even closer to obtain an atomic bomb. There's no evidence of the Germans having anything closer to the Manhattan Project, and no, the Germans didn't had superbrains.
     
  19. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    9,778
    Likes Received:
    802
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired Firefighter
    Location:
    Central Florida Highlands
    The had actually run more than a few of the superbrains out of the country in the late 30s.

    I would also be a little suspicious of the planned range of the Me 264 vs it's actual range.
     
  20. Jenisch

    Jenisch Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    #20 Jenisch, Mar 5, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
    Not only this: people popularily think that Nazi Germany was a country with superbrains everywhere. It wasn't like that. If the Germans wanted an atomic bomb, they would have to follow the steps of huge investments and research that every country who developed the bomb followed. I'm not denying that the Germans had advantage in technology in some areas, but the Allies actually had advantages over Germany as well, what is rarely mentioned. In actual fact, Nazi Germany and the Allies were in overall more or less even in terms of scientific development.

    They could have a plane of the type. What would not be certain would be when they would achive the necessary specifications and the model would be ready for operation.
     
Loading...

Share This Page