Brewster

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by rogerwilko, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. rogerwilko

    rogerwilko Member

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    Every time I look at this shot it reminds me of and old endearing jalopy!![​IMG]
     
  2. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    The Buffalo was supposed to be fun to fly, but this one DOES look a bit ... run down, doesn't it?
     
  3. rogerwilko

    rogerwilko Member

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    I always seem to be attracted to the underdogs! Perhaps i should have been a social worker!
     
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  4. N4521U

    N4521U Well-Known Member

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    Had a cousin who had a beat-up 32 Ford pickup same condition.
     
  5. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    Hope his wife looked better ...
     
  6. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    I think that was taken over Florida and the aircraft was assigned to a training unit.
     
  7. Shortround6

    Shortround6 Well-Known Member

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    Some engines were noted as being "cleaner" than others, most leaked oil to some extent, some more than others. It might not take a lot of hours to get a nice coating of oil on a plane, what they didn't "leak" they burned or blew out the breathers, longer range flights or missions with drop tanks usually required filling the oil tanks more or fitting larger oil tanks as they could go through 5-10 gallons of oil in just a few hours.
     
  8. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    The rings were tapered, and if you got a tapered compression ring installed upside down, it was a real oil burner. Still happens today.

    In fact, the cylinders from about 2 oclock to about 10 oclock had the tapered rings installed one way, and the top cylinders had them reversed for better oiling of the valve rockers. The knowledgeable guys (like Ray Anderson) still do that today on radials, too.
     
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  9. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    #9 Vassili Zaitzev, Jul 7, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
    Not my favorite aircraft, but I recognize its underdog status. The plane and their pilots caught a bad hand fighting the Japanese.
    stk0132.jpg
    Buffaloes_Web.jpg
    charmedlife.jpg
    greaves.jpg
     
  10. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    Nice artwork, Vassili ...
     
  11. SamPZLP.7

    SamPZLP.7 Member

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    It seemed like the Finnish Air Force made all of the aircraft that the U.S. had great! :D
     
  12. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    Just remember, the Finnish had a great cadre of well trained pilots, more so than the Soviets. Also, the Buffalo they had was the F2A-2 model, a bit lighter and faster than the Dash Three model found in the Pacific. Don't forgot, the Japanese had some of the best pilots at the Pacific War's outbreak, and the Zero outmaneuvered anything the Allies had. The Buff's and their pilots were just up against better pilots and better aircraft.
     
  13. nuuumannn

    nuuumannn Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention a greater number of Japanese aircraft, smarter Japanese strategists, inexperienced pilots, poor supply train, no early warning, no support from any local military allies. It's no wonder the British and Commonwealth pilots were beaten.
     
  14. LDSModeller

    LDSModeller Member

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    #14 LDSModeller, Jul 12, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2014
    The givens are the under performing aircraft, lack of training, no early warning etc etc.

    However I think people sell the RAF/Commonwealth pilots short - Why?

    There were in command of at least 488 Squadron, Battle of Britain veterans who only a year previous had fought against Germany's best pilots and aircraft. I personally believe that given the right aircraft, that these BoB vets coulds have out flown the Japanese best.
    These veteran pilots at least had that to lead/pass on experience to their charges. Given more time for training, life could have been quite unpleasant for the Japanese pilots.

    A number of RAF/Commonwealth pilots made "Ace" and a similar number (having 3 4 kills) could have made Ace, given time.

    The likes of Geoff Fisken (who started off in Short Singapores) developed tactics that made him Ace, and loved flying the Buffalo.

    I don't know if I would use the term "beaten" Overwhelmed Yes. Having to suffer Buffoonery at all levels of command yes. From reading accounts of these pilots, given the oppertunity they would have kept on fighting. Beaten they were not.

    Regards

    Alan
     
  15. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    No, I wasn't aiming to disparage the pilots. Yes, a few aces did appear during the Malaya/Singapore campaign. On the whole, however, the Japanese had better training than their counterparts. If there was time for the veterans to teach what they knew to the younger pilots, perhaps things could have been different. Going up against a Me-109 is different than a Zero, however, due to their performance. I wrote my college thesis on the loss of Singapore. No where did I sell the pilots short, but pointed out the problems they had and how it affected the campaign.
     
  16. oldcrowcv63

    oldcrowcv63 Well-Known Member

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    #16 oldcrowcv63, Jul 12, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2014
    Vassili, the Finns were flying the B-239, a de-navalized original F2A-1, not the F2A-2. The USN received only 11 of the 54 contracted production run with the remainder released to Finland in late 1939, early 1940. Between the end of the winter war in March 1940 (when the B-239's began arriving in Finland) and the start of the Continuation War June 1941, the combat veteran pilots of LeLv 24 transitioned, trained and became combat ready in their new, heavily armed, comparatively quick, and very maneuverable a/c.

    The USN began re-equipping with the higher powered F2A-2 in late-1940 thru early-1941. delivery was delayed due to Belgium purchase of the de-navalized F2A-2, called the B-339B which apparently was equipped with a lower powered engine and was heavier than the USN's F2A-2.
     
  17. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    It would take a short while to learn that you do NOT enter a turning fight with a zero, especially at lower speeds.

    A valuable lesson that had an expensive price tag.
     
  18. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    Damn. Thought for sure I had it. Thanks for the correction. Do you mind suggesting a source for me in regards to the Buffalo?
     
  19. LDSModeller

    LDSModeller Member

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    The problem is that the RAF/Commonwealth pilots didn't encounter the "Zero (A6M)" till later on in the battle (though the term Zero was used to describe aircraft). The vast majority of Aerial Combat was against IJAAF aircraft.

    The fact that that Japanese aircraft were different in design is of note, but the tactics of aerial combat would still have been the same. In my previous post I mentioned Geoff Fisken Buffalo ace.
    He developed tactics to combat the Japanese by a "Dive slash" approach. Something he continued to use flying against the Japanese, in P 40's in the SWPTO earning him between 11-13 kills, to become the Commonweallths highest Ace in the Pacific.
    Tatics he taught his other RNZAF fellow pilots, who ranked 99 kills in the P 40 fighter amongst the various RNZAF squadrons flying in the Theatre of Operations.
    Had the Hurricanes sent to bolster Singapores defenses not have the great big Vokes filter (adding additional weight and affecting performance) fitted, many more Japanese aircraft would have not gone home - the outcome may have taken longer to arrive at, but given the IJAAF a rather bloodied nose for their efforts.

    Regards

    Alan
     
  20. GregP

    GregP Well-Known Member

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    Hi LDSModeller,

    If you used the same tactics against Zeros as you used against Bf 109's, you'd be a victim. The British would dogfight with a Bf 109 almost eagerly (not really ... nobody likes combat). Doing that with a Zero while in his best airspeed range was suicide.

    That's the point! The British and Commonwealth pilots started out using European tactics against the Japanese. You could not dogight a Zero at less than 300 mph and, unlike a Bf 109, the Zero could show up anywhere at any time. It was not range limited and could and did hit you 500 miles from home base when and where you least expected it. It took them some time to evolve the best tactics against a foe that was much more maneuverable and could stay airborne longer than you could. At least in the bbeginning, the Japanese also had some great pilots that were VERY well trained. Some survived the war and were leaders at the end.
     
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