Build the perfect water cooled engine

[Readie]

People funding the "retro Revival" aren't using them to go to work or using them for week long vacation trips without chase vehicles.

I do understand that John Lucas is why you drink warm beer though

Real ale is a room temperature beer. To chill it would be a penal offence
That's why the Aussies only like cold beer....


The 'Retro' thing is alive and well, Lambretta's are 'in' as as the original mini , Ford Escort and Cortinas.
Harley are the masters of retro and selling the lifestyle image. Triumph try but, haven't got it quite right yet.
Cheers
John

 

[gjs238]

A lot of questions in a short sentence. A DB 601 powered P-51 would shown scant difference from an Allison powered P-51. Please note there are several model Allison's and several DB 601s so the question does get a little hard to answer.

Pitting the DB 605 vs the two stage Merlin gets a little tricky also. Which DB605? And at what altitude?
Using a DB 605A gets you a very inferior aircraft. Using some other models of the DB 605 gets even or better than even than the Merlin a certain altitudes but not as good at others.

A P-51 with a motorkanone wouldn't be too shabby.
Or a P-40 for that matter.

 

[Shortround6]

A P-51 with a motorkanone wouldn't be too shabby.
Or a P-40 for that matter.

Kind of depends on which side your on, the Americans didn't have a 'motorkanone' to fit and the Germans needed the motorkanone because their machineguns were lowpowered.

Would the motorkanone be in addition to the wing guns or instead of?

 

[davparlr]

a 1/2 inch Whitworth spanner round the back of your head.

Spanner??? Where is my Babel site for English to English. Let's see, I know it is not a monkey wrench, or a pipe wrench, not a end wrench or a box end wrench, and for sure not a spark plug wrench, uh, ahh, a Crescent wrench!

 

[davparlr]

plenty has been written on the P-51, good bad. no need to rehash here

Obviously you have absorbed all of the bad. Tell me, what plane do you think was all that great.

 

[P-40K-5]

Obviously you have absorbed all of the bad. Tell me, what plane do you think was all that great.

the one that started it all:

Wright Flyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

P-51 wasn't great.. just mediocre, what made it seem great was the 1000's
in the sky over Germany. some estimate 100:1 by late 1944.

the best pilot in the best German aircraft would be lucky to survive to the
end in late 44/45. game, set, match.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Real ale is a room temperature beer. To chill it would be a penal offence
That's why the Aussies only like cold beer....

Might have something to do with the difference in room temperature between Britain and Australia as well

 

[wuzak]

Unless you're riding that bike in the Andes, Himalayas or other similar area, the V-1710 would probably outperform the Merlin

Not if it is a low altitude Mk 66....

 

[fastmongrel]

For all you folks stateside who dont talk propers like wots i kan heres a spanner

Whitworth for the win none of that AF or BSC or metric rubbish proper victorian standards

 

[Readie]

For all you folks stateside who dont talk propers like wots i kan heres a spanner

Whitworth for the win none of that AF or BSC or metric rubbish proper victorian standards

Mr Brunel would be proud
Whitworth built the British Empire.
Cheers
John

 

[Readie]

Not if it is a low altitude Mk 66....

I'd worry more about balance and getting around the occasional corner
It is possible that the Allison is more suitable for a bike as its less powerful than the Merlin
Only joking
Cheers
John

 

[gjs238]

For all you folks stateside who dont talk propers like wots i kan heres a spanner

Whitworth for the win none of that AF or BSC or metric rubbish proper victorian standards

In the US, this is what we refer to as a "spanner wrench""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrench#Spanner_wrench

 

[Readie]

In the US, this is what we refer to as a "spanner wrench""
Wrench - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

'A ring spanner is safer'...he said looking at his knuckle scars when the force exceeded exceeded the spanner's grip on the offending nut...

 

[gjs238]

Heehee, a "ring spanner"?
We call that a box wrench

 

[Readie]

Heehee, a "ring spanner"?
We call that a box wrench

I would get in a pickle in the USA..no one would know what I was talking about

I also prefer the sockets that grip on the flats rather than the edges of a nut or bolt.
All for reasons of personal injury avoidance 8)

Snap on is top notch.

Cheers
John

 

[tomo pauk]

Kind of depends on which side your on, the Americans didn't have a 'motorkanone' to fit and the Germans needed the motorkanone because their machineguns were lowpowered.

Would the motorkanone be in addition to the wing guns or instead of?

Wouldn't the Hispano fit the 'motorkannone' role?
The three-cannon Hurricane, Spit, P-40 P-51 does sound right to me Plus, we can skip a P-39 acrobatics to mount the 37mm hopefully. Unfortunately, both Merlin Allison prevented that from happening.

 

[Shortround6]

Wouldn't the Hispano fit the 'motorkannone' role?
The three-cannon Hurricane, Spit, P-40 P-51 does sound right to me Plus, we can skip a P-39 acrobatics to mount the 37mm hopefully. Unfortunately, both Merlin Allison prevented that from happening.

German engines had a tube that limited the max diameter (or height or width) 0f any part of the gun 'inside' the engine to 70mm. any part of the gun bigger than that had to be to the rear of the block. This could mean (without an alteration of the gun, like trying to relocate the gas port and piston) that 1 1/3 to 1 1/2 meters of gun is behind the engine.
The Hispano engine and the Russian M-105 had a wide open "V" with both intake and exhaust manifolds on the outside of the block which left all kinds of room for parts of the cannon to be fitted in. fitting the 37mm gets a little difficult as after you subtract 37mm from 70mm you get 23mm which cut in 1/2 gives you 11.5mm of barrel thickness. even if you can get the bare barrel inside the tube that means something less than 1 meter of the total length of the gun (2.26 meters) fits inside the block.

for a drawing of the engine mounted hispano see:http://www.bibert.fr/Joseph_Bibert_fichiers/MS406_fichiers/image005.jpg

Now move the gun back so that the tube on top of the barrel is even with the rear of the cylinder blocks.

 

[tomo pauk]

Thanks for the analysis; I was referring to the Hispano cannon deployed in motorkannone role, not whether Hispano engine allows for a cannon to be deployed within the Vee

 

[Shortround6]

I understood that but was trying to point out WHY the Hispano cannon might be less than successful in the motorkannone role in a German engine.

 

[tomo pauk]

I see now
One of the reasons I've proposed a boxer engine was that such an engine leaves much more space above the crankcase (or under it, for inverted Vee) than the V engines, hence allowing for an easy installation of motorkannone.