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Build the perfect water cooled engine
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davparlr
Senior Master Sergeant
Well, you didn't select a great plane so let me select the Fw-190D-9, which is often claimed to be the best German fighter of the war, and some even consider it the best overall fighter of the war, and compare it to the P-51B in the fall of 1944, when the Fw-190D-9 first appeared. At this time, the P-51B was part of the force protecting the bombers and flying deep interdiction missions into Germany. It performs slightly better than the P-51D which is slightly heavier. The data I am using is, for the P-51B, USAAF test, dated 20 May 1944, using 44-1 fuel from Spitfireperformance and for the Fw-190D-9, Focke Wulf test data. Weight data with tested weight of 9680 lbs included 265 gallons of fuel, empty fuselage tank, for the P-51B, and was 9480 lbs, which is assumed includes 169 gallons full internal fuel, for the Fw-190D-9. P-51 data does not include racks, Fw-190D-9 configuration is unknown.
Performance key Airspeed(mph)/Climb(ft/min)
SL
P-51 386/4430
Fw-190 385/4429
5k ft
P-51 410/4420
Fw-190 405/4134
10k ft
P-51 420/3900
Fw-190 413/4134
15k ft
P-51 428/3820
Fw-190 432/3740
20k ft
P-51 442/3200
Fw-190 426/2992
25k ft
P-51 440/3200
Fw-190 417/2158
30k ft
P-51 430/1700
Fw-190 406/1476
Looking at this data, some things are very apparent.
1) At 20k ft and above where the bombers are flying, the D-9 is hopelessly outclassed in speed and has less climbing ability than the P-51B.
2) From SL to 15k ft, the two planes pretty well evenly matched.
3) The P-51 is doing this with 600 lbs more fuel. At equal fuel levels, climb performance will increase by about 300 ft/min. which is significant.
4) The P-51 is doing this 600 miles from home, the Fw-190 is doing this over its home base. And the P-51 will fly back 600 miles to home (if it was flying long distant escort).
5) This comparison is in the Fall of 1944 when the P-51B had already been in production for a year.
Some people realistically argue that the P-51 is not the best fighter in the war and can do so with the Fw-190D-9, but to say that the amazing P-51 is mediocre indicates a lack of knowledge. From December, 1943 through June, 1944, the P-51 took control of the skies over Germany with outstanding range and superior performance at bomber heights and very capable performance from SL up, and certainly production quantity helped significantly. It would be on every knowledgeable aviation historian's list of outstanding fighters and would also be considered one of the top three or four finalists for greatest WWII propeller fighter. No mediocrity there.
This is true but the air war was lost over Germany in early to mid '44, where the not always outnumbered Luftwaffe lost control of the air over Germany to the pesky and capable P-51.
Lighthunmust
Banned
Lighthunmust
Banned
Bravura demonstration of reason davparir!
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
With a following wind?
Hess arrived in one didn't he after he got 'lost'
Cheers
John
Shortround6
Major General
With a drop tank.....YES!
Making it from London BACK to the French coast might present a Problem though, depends on the head winds and how well the 109 glides
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
Yes, a fantastic plane that only a mad man would deny its contribution to winning WW2. US frame with British power. Unbeatable...and unbeaten.
Cheers
John
Shortround6
Major General
Actually, I believe photo-recon Spitfires flew over Berlin fairly often.
very good. have you've seen pics floating around books and the net of twin drop tanks on 109's?
no? unfortunate. don't matter anyways, the Germans were already done.
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
and with impunity too...
davparlr
Senior Master Sergeant
The Bf-109K-4 was quite a hot rod. It could indeed out perform the P-51B/D in speed and climb over the entire envelop. Its biggest problem was timing. Germany desperately needed it in mass in January, 1944, not December, 1944. If it had appeared then it would have been problematic for the Allies and the course of the war may have changed. However, it didn't and when it did it was way too late and it only became one of those "what if" birds that had no impact on the war.
Lighthunmust
Banned
You guys have me rofl! With you and not at you.
Lighthunmust
Banned
Fairly similar to the situation in the Pacific in 1941-42 and yet tactics beat the faster flying and climbing machine. The course of the war may have changed but it would have been a very small detour on the road to Allied victory.
thanks for the backup. indeed the 'K' came to the game way too late. coupled with the fact of too few
skilled pilots, 45min of training, and a serious lack of fuel by late 1944.
the Luftwaffe had the planes, but pilot skill fuel were in severe shortage. can't fight the enemy when
you can't get off the ground. also, most group commanders were trying to save their pilots rather then
obey suicidal orders by after the slaughter of Jan 1st, 1945.
if the cc followed Gallands plans, it might have been different.
Shortround6
Major General
That would only get the 109 into trouble it couldn't get out of.
For a long range fighter it isn't the amount of fuel you can take off with but the amount of fuel you have left after you have dropped the external tanks AND fought at full or near full throttle for 15-20 minutes.
A P-39 could get of the ground with a 175 gallon belly tank but with only 120 gals of internal fuel nobody was ever going to confuse it with an escort fighter.
The same with the 109, unless you can figure out were to put another 200 or more liters of fuel inside the plane, it doesn't matter what you hang under the wing.
soooo what your saying is the 109 wasn't an escort fighter as well? neato!
the way I understand the operating principles of a 109 droptank is, when the
tanks are dropped, the main will be full. becouse compressed air fed to the drop
tanks keep the main tank filled. 1000km range with 1 drop tank. ditch at sea after
that yay!
why some of you guys think that all luftwaffe bases were out of Berlin is beyond me.
anyways yah.. what was the stats? the top ten 109 pilots had more kills then all allied
aces combined on all fronts of the war? fuel milage? we don't need no stickin' fuel milage!
the way I understand the operating principles of a 109 droptank is, when the
tanks are dropped, the main will be full. becouse compressed air fed to the drop
tanks keep the main tank filled. 1000km range with 1 drop tank. ditch at sea after
that yay!
why some of you guys think that all luftwaffe bases were out of Berlin is beyond me.
anyways yah.. what was the stats? the top ten 109 pilots had more kills then all allied
aces combined on all fronts of the war? fuel milage? we don't need no stickin' fuel milage!