Canopy Flaws

Discussion in 'Building Questions, Tutorials and Guidebooks' started by mandoman, May 3, 2011.

  1. mandoman

    mandoman Member

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    Right now I'm finishing up on a 1/48 Mitsubishi "Dinah" Ki-46. I really thought I had got this one right. I only broke a couple of parts that were easily repaired, and the canopy masking seemed like the best I had yet accomplished......until I started removing the masking after all else was complete. Crap, I have GOT to figure out how to mount, mask, and paint a canopy correctly. At this point, I don't really care about the rest of it, but I want that canopy to look good, because it tends to be the most noticeable part on the aircraft. I think so, anyway. The main problem I have is the plastic deforms along the base of the canopy, and though I think I'm smoothing it out, I always find out AFTER I paint that it isn't smooth at all. I must be blind, AND dumb.

    Any of you have any tricks on mounting canopies neatly, or am I just stupid? :(
     
  2. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    If you post some pics, it might help. I don't understand the deformation you're talking about. Parhaps it isn't fully cemented down?
     
  3. mandoman

    mandoman Member

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    I'll try to take some, though I have been "fixing it", so it may not be noticeable at this point. I bet I have other examples, though, as this has been a problem to one degree, or another for quite a while.
    Man, you sure replied fast. I got up to go to the john, and had a reply when I returned. :lol:
     
  4. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, what took you so long!
     
  5. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    What about these pics?
     
  6. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

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    Same here, not sure what you mean by a deformation. I use two methods: 1. permanent markers which come in a wide range of colors, even metallics. there are also paint sticks which use actual paint. 2. If you really want to use matching paint, I have used Scotch tape to mask the clear parts. the tape being clear you can see through it and using a sharp Xacto knife cut out the metal frame leaving the clear covered with tape. Started using FROG masking tape. it has a new adhesive that reacts with acrylic paint to form a barrier preventing any seepage under the tape.
    Others have posted that you can buy masking sets which are die cut for particular planes and their canopies but I have never used these
     
  7. mandoman

    mandoman Member

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    OK, for some reason my computer is having a hard time with my albums, and I have to recharge my camera to take any more, so I'm stuck, momentarily. I'll try to get some pics of what I mean up soon.
     
  8. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    Tamiya kit?
     
  9. mandoman

    mandoman Member

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    Yeah, it's Tamiya. It's not a difficult kit, but should look nice when complete, as the parts were in pretty good condition. Here, take a look at the base of the canopy on this Me-189. It has a warbled effect, like it was melting. I have a hard time preventing that. I try not to apply too much glue, using the tip of a pin, but maybe that's what I'm doing.

    http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/watermark.php?file=15301&size=1
     
  10. jjp_nl

    jjp_nl Member

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    #10 jjp_nl, May 5, 2011
    Last edited: May 5, 2011
    Don't use regular plastic glue, but rather a glue that doesn't actually melt the plastic together.

    Provided you've dipped your clearparts in future, and let that dry and cure thoroughly, you should be able to glue it in place with maybe just a little bead (for example on two to four critical spots) of CA-glue and touch up the rest of the join between clearpart and fuselage as needed with whiteglue or Gators acrylic hobby glue (Gators kinda looks and works like white glue,including cleaning with water,except the bond nears the strenght of CA glue once it dries and cures) to smoothen things out.

    If the join doesn't have to cope with a lot of stress (nohting like that big clearpart area on the FW-189, but rather typical teardrop canopy on a P-51 of something) white glue or micro scale Krystal Klear (which to my mind is just an overprized version of white glue) alone might even do the trick although the bond is not very strong but rather just holds clearparts in place and no more then that (hence the 'doesn't have to cope with a lot of stress' part)

    A few better pic's or closeups to get a better idea as to what is actually happening with your clearparts and a better discription of how you do things now might be helpful though.

    Hope this points into the right direction. These methodes should at least prevent deformation of any kind. Gotta be careful though, excess use of CA glue or gators might craze or blur your clearparts
     
  11. mandoman

    mandoman Member

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    #11 mandoman, May 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2011
    So it's been the type of glue all this time. Sheesh, 40 years, or so, I've been using the wrong glue on canopies, and I bet all other clear plastic model pieces as well. I appreciate your suggestions. When you say White Glue, are you referring to something like Elmers white glue? I'm sorry to be so dense, but what is CA glue? Here are a couple of pics of the Dinah, but I took these after I started trying to fix the melted look. Believe me, it looks better than before I started, though it will never be completely right, now. I also included a pic from the front canopy of the B-29 I built a few years ago. I think you can see that same warbled, melted look that I absolutely detest. Think I'm going to try tweeking that B-29 a little, too. :|


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    A CA glue is cyanoacrylate one like Superglue. It is offered as a gel or very thin one. Also for attaching a such "glassy" thing you can use the Humbrol Clearfix for instance. But it seems that your problem is not with a glue but with the way you stuck these cockpy conopies. There is no need to apply a glue at all edges of a fuslage or a conopy. Usually it is enough to put a small drop of a glue at two or three places.
     
  13. jjp_nl

    jjp_nl Member

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    Elmers sounds just about right to me. It doesn't go by that name here in The Netherlands, but other US modelers keep calling it Elmers, so I'd say yes Elmers is what you should get. As far as CA glue goes, CA glue = Cyanoacrylate glue = superglue ;)

    Looking at these I think indeed this is a case of too much regular modeling glue used. Wild guess here: I'd say you've glued the clear parts in place after you've painted them? In addition to a somewhat ragged looking join that's not easy to touch up without wrecking the surrounding paintjob the paint coat also is wrecked by the use of (regular) glue, which doesn't help matters as far as the overall result goes. Use of other types of glue should prevent this. In addition toying with the order of masking, painting and installing the clearpart could help.

    For example, I tend to mask my clearparts while they're not installed. After I'm done masking I glue them in place with a glue of choice (Gators, superglue or whiteglue whichever best suits the job) and make sure the join is carefully cleaned up and looks nice and smooth. After all that I commence painting my model. As far as clearparts you cover up the join with a nice coat of paint together with the rest of the model. Unmask when it's all done, and you should be able to get a perfectly masked clearparts that sits nicely on your model without the ragged looking join
     
  14. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

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    jjp nl, I don't like the idea of a white glue since they do not cure completely clear. as other have said there is little stress on the canopy so I have taken to using Future to "glue" the canopy in place. Again, just a small amount and put the canopy in place while the future is wet. in 30min or so the future will set and the canopy will be in place.
    As far as CA glues are concerned I have had problems with the fumes clouding up the clear canopy even through the Future coat
     
  15. jjp_nl

    jjp_nl Member

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    #15 jjp_nl, May 5, 2011
    Last edited: May 5, 2011
    @ mikewint,

    Well, the white glue I use does does cure completely clear, so for me this in no problem, but perhaps other white glues don't dry completely clear. On the other hand, the way I work it is of no importance if the white glue I use dries completely clear. I only use it for the join which is afterwards covered by paint anyway cured clear or not. Should indeed your white glue (Elmers or whatever) not dry completely clear and depending on the order in which you install the clearparts it is desireable that it does dry completely clear, Microscale's Krystal Clear does without a doubt dry completely crystal clear and otherwise works the same as white glue. I've made lenses with it for Photo Recon A/C that are very clear for sure. Future is indeed a third possibility to hold clearparts in place.

    I concur that excessive use of CA glues can cloud your clearparts even with a good future coat. Working with as little as possible is recommened absolutely (hence the use only on 2 or 3 small spots and work your way around with for example white glue of future), but I have done it countless time and has worked very well indeed for me without wrecking a single clearpart.

    Perhaps it would be good for Mandoman to try and experiment a little with some spare clearparts and different methods and means of installing them on a model rather then 'go live' with any of the other methods right away. As with many things in modeling there is not a single 'be all end all' way to get the job done, but various methods to get the desired results.
     
  16. mandoman

    mandoman Member

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    #16 mandoman, May 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2011
    OK, that's exactly my mistake. One would think that a reasonably intelligent modeler would figure that out in time. Guess you know what that makes me, eh? :lol:


    You were right, it was a wild guess, and incorrect, though not an unreasonable assumption. In fact, I also apply the masking to the clear parts before I attach them to the model. I also attach the clear parts to the model before I paint, but I'm just not good at it, evidently.


    Future? I never thought of using it as a glue before. I use it on models, and other plastic parts as a sealer. I'll have to try that out.

    So CA is Super Glue. I hate that stuff. I seem to always end up with some on my fingers, and I'm with Mikewint in experiencing clouding on the clear parts, usually due to lack of ventilation inside the cockpit.

    Sorry, I keep forgetting that there are plenty of other Nationalities on this forum than U.S.A. members. I know, another arrogant North American. I don't mean to be, though. Honest. :3dglasses:


    To sum this up, I have been using way too much model glue on the clear parts, and I shouldn't be using model glue on them at all. I need White glue (Elmer's :)). or maybe even Future, and only a tiny dab in two or three key positions around the edge of the cockpit. Lastly, I'm an arrogant American with no common modeling sense.

    Have any of you used the Testors Clear Plastic Glue? I use it every now and then, but I guess it must not be much of a choice.
     
  17. jjp_nl

    jjp_nl Member

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    Plenty of other methods to try out that for sure ;) I bet you'll find a way that suits your needs
     
  18. bob3170

    bob3170 Member

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    Mandoman, Gators Grip glue was mentioned by someone in an earlier post, I have just started using it, and to be completely honest, I am a convert:D. I recently used it to attach a canopy masked with Bare-Metal foil, and the joint withstood the removal of the foil. If you haven't used Bare-Metal foil to mask with, it isn't made to be removeable, being designed for doing chrome trim on model cars, and requires a fair amount of scraping with a toothpick to remove it when used as a mask, a white glued canopy would have parted company. Another plus, it is water based, while wet excess can be removed with a damp cotton swab.

    Now, I have used regular model cement for clear parts, but it needs to be the liquid type, applied in very minute amounts with a fine brush, letting capillary action draw it along the seam. I only do this if the clear part is ill fitting and needs to be forced into position, if putty is going to be needed, or for any other reason I'm going to need a really solid joint. I also don't like CA around clear parts, and white glue just doesn't bond well enough for rough handling.

    Testors clear parts cement is close to white glue or Micro Krystal Klear, and holds about as well, or not.
     
  19. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    Superglue - the name of the adhesive.
     

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  20. jjp_nl

    jjp_nl Member

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    @ Wurger
    It goes by a lot of different name. Zap a gap, superglue, etc. etc.
     
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