Cars that I'd.....

PlasticHero · May 20, 2022

I have the perfect part time job; moving cars on a VERY large auto auction facility. Most of the time it is mundane sedans but sometimes, something interesting needs driven. The lot speed is at best 30 and the drive is at most only a few minutes. I have driven these or essentially the same car and if given the choice, and I know this is unpopular, I would take a older, less powerful, car over any of the hyper cars, foreign or domestic all day long. First, a manual is required; and convertible is highly favored. The Prowler is a comfortable car to drive, but it's to be seen in, not to go somewhere. The lifted trucks are just awful. (sorry lifted truck guys/gals)

Jagdflieger · May 20, 2022

davparlr said:
73 started the big safety and emission requirements which lowered engine performance and affected looks

They had emission requirements in the USA in 1973?
As for Germany seat-belts and head rests were a standard for the 02 already in 1971 and cars build before 1980 or those today registered as Classic cars - don't require a catalytic converter. As such the output 130 PS/hp never changed.

Lucky13 · May 20, 2022

Jagdflieger · May 20, 2022

IIRC used to be the fasted sports car in the mid 70's

GrauGeist · May 21, 2022

Jagdflieger said:
IIRC used to be the fasted sports car in the mid 70's

Not even close - the Pantera is not even in the top ten fastest exotics of the 70's.

It's top end was only 159mph (256kph), the Jaguar XJS could beat that easily.

MiTasol · May 21, 2022

Jagdflieger said:
They had emission requirements in the USA in 1973?
As for Germany seat-belts and head rests were a standard for the 02 already in 1971 and cars build before 1980 or those today registered as Classic cars - don't require a catalytic converter. As such the output 130 PS/hp never changed.

California had emission requirements even before that. I was in court one day in early 72 and one case was a hot roder who had removed the emission equipment on his car. Cost the owner heeeeeaaaaps

Torch · May 21, 2022

Jagdflieger said:
Not sure, someone in the States during the 70's tried telling me it stands for British Motor Works

In NYC it meant Break My Window,,, In Florida it means Bring My Wallet

Jagdflieger said:
I think it actually stands for Beyond Magical Wonders

BTW did my favorite BMW the 3.0 CLS ever participate in those US races - like Indi. or etc.?

One of my all time favorite Bimmers

Torch · May 21, 2022

GrauGeist said:
Not even close - the Pantera is not even in the top ten fastest exotics of the 70's.

It's top end was only 159mph (256kph), the Jaguar XJS could beat that easily.

It is beautiful thou

Jagdflieger · May 21, 2022

Torch said:
It is beautiful thou

Yes it is....and speed is an interpretative term - some go for acceleration, some for top-speed and other in a combination.

De Tomaso Pantera GTS specs, 0-60, quarter mile, lap times - FastestLaps.com

1973 De Tomaso Pantera GTS specs, 0-60, quarter mile, lap times, price, top speed, engine specifications, pictures.

fastestlaps.com

e.g. In 1973-5 the De Tomaso Panterra GTS in acceleration 0-60 in 5.8 sec. and in top speed 179,5 mph, whilst a Porsche Carrera 3.0 RS did 5.2 sec with top speed of 155mph
and a Ferrari GT4 BB did 6.2sec. with a top speed of 188mph

And a De Tomaso besides tremendous performance and looking great cost "only" at average 50-30% of a Lambo or e.g. Aston Martin

The De Tomaso Longchamp IMO is a great looking car too. (aside from the Ford Granada? headlights)

davparlr · May 21, 2022

Jagdflieger said:
They had emission requirements in the USA in 1973?
As for Germany seat-belts and head rests were a standard for the 02 already in 1971 and cars build before 1980 or those today registered as Classic cars - don't require a catalytic converter. As such the output 130 PS/hp never changed.

I think that was the first year of serious pollution controls, pre catalytic converter, including added air pump and carburetor adjustments, which made drive ability issues, dieseling (running on after shut down), and poor gas mileage. I always felt that was a good year to avoid when buying a used car.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 21, 2022

davparlr said:
I think that was the first year of serious pollution controls, pre catalytic converter, including added air pump and carburetor adjustments, which made drive ability issues, dieseling (running on after shut down), and poor gas mileage. I always felt that was a good year to avoid when buying a used car.

Yes, it started with the 1973 Clean Air Act.

GrauGeist · May 21, 2022

davparlr said:
I think that was the first year of serious pollution controls, pre catalytic converter, including added air pump and carburetor adjustments, which made drive ability issues, dieseling (running on after shut down), and poor gas mileage. I always felt that was a good year to avoid when buying a used car.

The first step for pollution control actually started in the early 60's with the introduction of the "Positive Crankcase Ventilation" (PCV), which eliminated the crankcase vent with a tube running from the valve cover or engine block, to the intake manifold (complete with a valve).
By 1967, automakers were introducing the fresh air circulation pump system with Ford's "thermactor" arrangement being a disaster (caused several problems including engine fires) and was redesigned by 1968/69.

davparlr · May 21, 2022

Jagdflieger said:
Yes it is....and speed is an interpretative term - some go for acceleration, some for top-speed and other in a combination.

De Tomaso Pantera GTS specs, 0-60, quarter mile, lap times - FastestLaps.com

1973 De Tomaso Pantera GTS specs, 0-60, quarter mile, lap times, price, top speed, engine specifications, pictures.

fastestlaps.com

e.g. In 1973-5 the De Tomaso Panterra GTS in acceleration 0-60 in 5.8 sec. and in top speed 179,5 mph, whilst a Porsche Carrera 3.0 RS did 5.2 sec with top speed of 155mph
and a Ferrari GT4 BB did 6.2sec. with a top speed of 188mph

And a De Tomaso besides tremendous performance and looking great cost "only" at average 50-30% of a Lambo or e.g. Aston Martin

The De Tomaso Longchamp IMO is a great looking car too. (aside from the Ford Granada? headlights)

One of my fellow class member in pilot training drove a Detomaso Mangusta (great name!). He came from a rich family and his dad gave him the car to dump a girlfriend! He rolled it once and had to sell his airplane to pay for repairs! Tough life.

Jagdflieger · May 21, 2022

davparlr said:
One of my fellow class member in pilot training drove a Detomaso Mangusta (great name!). He came from a rich family and his dad gave him the car to dump a girlfriend! He rolled it once and had to sell his airplane to pay for repairs! Tough life.

I guess that is why they are called "$uper sports-cars".
The father of a friend of mine had a Ferrari 512 BBi and told me that he needed to see a workshop every 1000km to adjust the valve/cylinder-setting - in around 1982.
One workshop visit cost him around $400 = so around $5000 a year just for that single issue.

MiTasol · May 21, 2022

I must admit to a liking for the old Mercedes 300SL series gull wing cars but the price range is way beyond me now. The stock production 300SL was quite affordable in the 80s.

MSN

Jagdflieger · May 21, 2022

MiTasol said:
I must admit to a liking for the old Mercedes 300SL series gull wing cars but the price range is way beyond me now. The stock production 300SL was quite affordable in the 80s.

MSN

Yes, unfortunately the original group of "fancy" of classic cars, has been taken over consistently by business "profit" mentality people. But as unfortunate as it is for "real" collectors,
that's how the world spins.

special ed · May 21, 2022

GrauGeist said:
The first step for pollution control actually started in the early 60's with the introduction of the "Positive Crankcase Ventilation" (PCV), which eliminated the crankcase vent with a tube running from the valve cover or engine block, to the intake manifold (complete with a valve).
By 1967, automakers were introducing the fresh air circulation pump system with Ford's "thermactor" arrangement being a disaster (caused several problems including engine fires) and was redesigned by 1968/69.

California required the PCV in 1962, My 1967 Chevy Impala SS 327 was detuned and anemic compared to the 65-66s.

nuuumannn · May 21, 2022

On the greater subject of environmental protection... As difficult as it is to believe to outsiders, the greater conservation movement began in the USA and back in the 19th Century there were interested parties in preserving nature by pushing for the establishment of national parks and wildlife reserves. Later, people like Teddy Roosevelt pushed for conservation laws and protected areas.

Error

www.nwf.org

Jagdflieger · May 21, 2022

nuuumannn said:
On the greater subject of environmental protection... As difficult as it is to believe to outsiders, the greater conservation movement began in the USA and back in the 19th Century there were interested parties in preserving nature by pushing for the establishment of national parks and wildlife reserves. Later, people like Teddy Roosevelt pushed for conservation laws and protected areas.

Error

www.nwf.org

I believe that this was a common occurrence in the 19th century throughout large colonies/countries national parks being established also in Australia, Canada, etc. knowing that in Europe throughout the centuries original wild life had been almost exterminated.
Sweden due it's similar vastness and sparse population and wild animals as the USA, was the first European country to establish a national park in 1909.
Thanks to former Czechoslovakia a lot of their beavers, Wildcats and even Wolfs migrated into the Bavarian Forrest - thus founding Germany's first national park in 1970.

AFAIK the initial "environment control" issues for cars in the USA was due to their 'indigenous cars" exuberant petrol consumption and thus emissions, especially in regards to carburetors which in Europe had been started to be replaced by injection pump fueled engines. As such the "Clean Air Act" was introduced in 1975 and the Energy Policy and Conservation Act starting with vehicles from 1978 onward under Nixon(EPA), It really got underway IIRC under the Carter administration, amongst other issues e.g. with the "K" series cars.

That is why I was initially surprised when someone mentioned 1973

nuuumannn · May 21, 2022

Jagdflieger said:
I believe that this was a common occurrence in the 19th century throughout large colonies/countries national parks being established also in Australia, Canada, etc. knowing that in Europe throughout the centuries original wild life had been almost exterminated.
Sweden due it's similar vastness and sparse population and wild animals as the USA, was the first European country to establish a national park in 1909.

The USA acted before these countries though. Yellowstone was opened in 1872. Australia didn't open its first until 1879.

Jagdflieger said:
That is why I was initially surprised when someone mentioned 1973

Actually, the Clean Air Act was first enacted in 1963 and has been re-issued since. The Motor Vehicle Air Pollution Act was introduced in 1965.

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