Jagdflieger
Senior Airman
- 580
- Mar 23, 2022
Cars that I'd.....
- Thread starter Lucky13
- Start date
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Lucky13
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This 1953 Fiat 8V Supersonic is exceedingly rare — and exceedingly gorgeous
Fiat's most legendary, significant, and storied production model, the 8V, was aptly described by Road & Track in 1952 as being "the biggest surprise of the year." Although Fiat traces its roots to 1899 and built competition cars both massive and magnificent in the early twentieth century, after World War II the company was known largely for its mass-produced automobiles for the common man, such cars like the tiny "Topolino" that put a nation on wheels and had become among the most popular in Europe.
Therefore, it came as a shock to the automotive world when Fiat suddenly introduced a powerful sports car with an advanced overhead-valve light alloy V-8 engine, Siata-fabricated chassis, and four-wheel independent suspension, which could be and was successfully raced by privateers all over the world.
Like most sophisticated chassis of the time, the 8V lent itself handsomely to custom coachwork, which Fiat encouraged. Carrozzeria Ghia of Torino accounted for approximately 30 to 40 of the 114 8V chassis built, of which the most striking were the 15 bodied to Giovanni Savonuzzi's stunning Jet Age design, known, simply and appropriately as the "Supersonic."
The Supersonic design had originally been proposed for an Alfa Romeo racing car, which Savonuzzi gave a steeply raked, long windshield; a curved nose that formed a straight-through beltline, ending at small tail fins flaring off lights intended to resemble jet afterburners; and a low, glassy greenhouse.
Similar styling on an 8V chassis was subsequently ordered by American designer Paul Farago, and 14 more examples followed, all of which had detail differences but remained largely true to Savonuzzi's original and dramatic design. They are considered the most sought-after and desirable 8Vs, as they boast the best combination of avant-garde design from the Jet Age. Even today they are stunningly modern and dramatic and turn heads wherever they go. Few cars are so capable of stopping concours crowds in their tracks.
General Motors designer Henry de Segur Lauve, a concept artist behind the original Corvette prototype and other significant cars, attended the Supersonic design's official debut at the 1953 Paris Auto Show. Mr. Lauve was struck by the styling of the new model and placed an order for his own, which, finished in white with a blue interior, was shipped from the Genoa docks aboard SS Constitution. Typical of the 8Vs, the car featured exquisite hardware throughout, including the interior with an elaborate Ghia-badged speedometer behind the wood-rimmed steering wheel.
Mr. Lauve contacted Fiat roughly a year later, complaining about difficulties with the engine of his car in everyday use. He received a rather amusing response from the Italian automaker, reproduced in Tony Adriaensens's book Otto Vu, noting their surprise that he had tried to use the car as a "daily driver," as it was intended for use by wealthy amateur racing drivers!
Nonetheless, Fiat agreed to supply a new engine, no. 000188, and its ancillary components, on the condition that Mr. Lauve return the original engine, no. 000039. Interestingly, that engine was never returned to Fiat and was subsequently fitted to another 8V Supersonic. At some point before the new engine was installed, Mr. Lauve ran the car with a Chevrolet 283 V-8 under the hood, as remembered by his fellow GM designer Robert Cumberford, who enjoyed many memorable high-speed rides in it through the Detroit suburbs. During this time, the treatment of the car's flanks was appropriated for the new 1958 Chevrolet, reflecting the attention paid by Mr. Lauve and his fellow designers.
Apparently the 8V Supersonic, with whatever power plant, pleased Mr. Lauve, as he and his family maintained it faithfully longer than almost any other original 8V owner. During their tenure it was refinished in silver, as featured in Otto Vu. It was finally sold by the Lauves in 1991 and was later owned in 1994 by Eric Nielsen of California. The car was subsequently restored in this rich garnet-over-tan combination, with a correct 8V engine, no. 000060, tucked under the hood. The work was beautifully detailed, with the color showing off the elaborate curves of the body and fabulous touches such as smoked glass sun visors and Borrani chrome wire wheels.
Following long-term ownership in a prominent Swiss collection, the car was acquired for the current collection and has remained well maintained since, alongside two other superlative 8Vs. It would certainly be suitable for either enjoying on vintage rallies, such as the California Mille, Colorado Grand, or even the Mille Miglia, but could also be lightly freshened for happy exhibition at further shows and concours.
Few Supersonics have such a well-known, colorful, and fascinating history as the Henry Lauve car—preserved and maintained by a legendary Detroit designer, a man who appreciated the exquisite and advanced styling when he saw it. It is among the greatest treasures of this collection.
Sold - RM/Sotheby's October 2020 for $2,040,000
Fiat's most legendary, significant, and storied production model, the 8V, was aptly described by Road & Track in 1952 as being "the biggest surprise of the year." Although Fiat traces its roots to 1899 and built competition cars both massive and magnificent in the early twentieth century, after World War II the company was known largely for its mass-produced automobiles for the common man, such cars like the tiny "Topolino" that put a nation on wheels and had become among the most popular in Europe.
Therefore, it came as a shock to the automotive world when Fiat suddenly introduced a powerful sports car with an advanced overhead-valve light alloy V-8 engine, Siata-fabricated chassis, and four-wheel independent suspension, which could be and was successfully raced by privateers all over the world.
Like most sophisticated chassis of the time, the 8V lent itself handsomely to custom coachwork, which Fiat encouraged. Carrozzeria Ghia of Torino accounted for approximately 30 to 40 of the 114 8V chassis built, of which the most striking were the 15 bodied to Giovanni Savonuzzi's stunning Jet Age design, known, simply and appropriately as the "Supersonic."
The Supersonic design had originally been proposed for an Alfa Romeo racing car, which Savonuzzi gave a steeply raked, long windshield; a curved nose that formed a straight-through beltline, ending at small tail fins flaring off lights intended to resemble jet afterburners; and a low, glassy greenhouse.
Similar styling on an 8V chassis was subsequently ordered by American designer Paul Farago, and 14 more examples followed, all of which had detail differences but remained largely true to Savonuzzi's original and dramatic design. They are considered the most sought-after and desirable 8Vs, as they boast the best combination of avant-garde design from the Jet Age. Even today they are stunningly modern and dramatic and turn heads wherever they go. Few cars are so capable of stopping concours crowds in their tracks.
General Motors designer Henry de Segur Lauve, a concept artist behind the original Corvette prototype and other significant cars, attended the Supersonic design's official debut at the 1953 Paris Auto Show. Mr. Lauve was struck by the styling of the new model and placed an order for his own, which, finished in white with a blue interior, was shipped from the Genoa docks aboard SS Constitution. Typical of the 8Vs, the car featured exquisite hardware throughout, including the interior with an elaborate Ghia-badged speedometer behind the wood-rimmed steering wheel.
Mr. Lauve contacted Fiat roughly a year later, complaining about difficulties with the engine of his car in everyday use. He received a rather amusing response from the Italian automaker, reproduced in Tony Adriaensens's book Otto Vu, noting their surprise that he had tried to use the car as a "daily driver," as it was intended for use by wealthy amateur racing drivers!
Nonetheless, Fiat agreed to supply a new engine, no. 000188, and its ancillary components, on the condition that Mr. Lauve return the original engine, no. 000039. Interestingly, that engine was never returned to Fiat and was subsequently fitted to another 8V Supersonic. At some point before the new engine was installed, Mr. Lauve ran the car with a Chevrolet 283 V-8 under the hood, as remembered by his fellow GM designer Robert Cumberford, who enjoyed many memorable high-speed rides in it through the Detroit suburbs. During this time, the treatment of the car's flanks was appropriated for the new 1958 Chevrolet, reflecting the attention paid by Mr. Lauve and his fellow designers.
Apparently the 8V Supersonic, with whatever power plant, pleased Mr. Lauve, as he and his family maintained it faithfully longer than almost any other original 8V owner. During their tenure it was refinished in silver, as featured in Otto Vu. It was finally sold by the Lauves in 1991 and was later owned in 1994 by Eric Nielsen of California. The car was subsequently restored in this rich garnet-over-tan combination, with a correct 8V engine, no. 000060, tucked under the hood. The work was beautifully detailed, with the color showing off the elaborate curves of the body and fabulous touches such as smoked glass sun visors and Borrani chrome wire wheels.
Following long-term ownership in a prominent Swiss collection, the car was acquired for the current collection and has remained well maintained since, alongside two other superlative 8Vs. It would certainly be suitable for either enjoying on vintage rallies, such as the California Mille, Colorado Grand, or even the Mille Miglia, but could also be lightly freshened for happy exhibition at further shows and concours.
Few Supersonics have such a well-known, colorful, and fascinating history as the Henry Lauve car—preserved and maintained by a legendary Detroit designer, a man who appreciated the exquisite and advanced styling when he saw it. It is among the greatest treasures of this collection.
Sold - RM/Sotheby's October 2020 for $2,040,000
Jagdflieger
Senior Airman
- 580
- Mar 23, 2022
simply Beautiful
Jagdflieger
Senior Airman
- 580
- Mar 23, 2022
sorry double post
I have always loved the old classic Daimler Benz/Mercedes sports cars and roadsters. Being from Stuttgart probably influenced that a lot. But then again Porsche is made their as well, and I don't have the same affection for them as I do Mercedes.
These pics below are three of my favorites. I took them at the Mercedes-Benz Museum in Stuttgart back in December when I took my oldest son to the museum for the first time.
These pics below are three of my favorites. I took them at the Mercedes-Benz Museum in Stuttgart back in December when I took my oldest son to the museum for the first time.
Jagdflieger
Senior Airman
- 580
- Mar 23, 2022
The 300 SL gull-wing and it's roadster version are certainly great cars - but too baroque to appeal to my liking
My favorite Mercedes on 2nd place would be the Mercedes-Benz 280 SL w113 - unfortunately in great condition they cost meanwhile from 100-150,000 euro
My favorite Mercedes on 2nd place would be the Mercedes-Benz 280 SL w113 - unfortunately in great condition they cost meanwhile from 100-150,000 euro
Attachments
special ed
2nd Lieutenant
- 5,590
- May 13, 2018
They both leave you broke.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
Jaguar XJ220, my dream car.
Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
Cars I'd like... to have back would be any of my old Stingrays I had (4)
Recently had to finally give up my 2014 CTS Wagon, just too many (hard) miles.
While shopping the internet for another Caddy, this came up:
Kind of slick, not as many toys as the Caddy but a turbo 4 with AWD so I snagged it. Not bad, didn't even know about this, it's an Opel rebadged for Buick, not as fast but still pretty hot, and I averaged 41 mpg on the highway.
As for cars I'd really like to have, too many to list but...
GM
Any year Vette
Any year GTO
1968-1978 Firebird/Trans Am
1968 Z-28 w/302 twin 4bbl
1967-69 Cadillac Eldorado
Any Hurst Olds or original 442
MOPAR
1968 Dodge Charger/Plymouth Road Runner (Hemi of course)
Any Superbird (Hemi Preferably)
Early Challengers
You know, I could go on for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time so I'll stop there, and I didn't even manage to get to the Ferrari's, Benz's and Toyota's etc.
Recently had to finally give up my 2014 CTS Wagon, just too many (hard) miles.
While shopping the internet for another Caddy, this came up:
Kind of slick, not as many toys as the Caddy but a turbo 4 with AWD so I snagged it. Not bad, didn't even know about this, it's an Opel rebadged for Buick, not as fast but still pretty hot, and I averaged 41 mpg on the highway.
As for cars I'd really like to have, too many to list but...
GM
Any year Vette
Any year GTO
1968-1978 Firebird/Trans Am
1968 Z-28 w/302 twin 4bbl
1967-69 Cadillac Eldorado
Any Hurst Olds or original 442
MOPAR
1968 Dodge Charger/Plymouth Road Runner (Hemi of course)
Any Superbird (Hemi Preferably)
Early Challengers
You know, I could go on for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time so I'll stop there, and I didn't even manage to get to the Ferrari's, Benz's and Toyota's etc.
Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
Oh man, I am SOOOO jealous, that's a beauty, I love the old 60's Poncho OHC engines.I still like my 67 Firebird Sprint - 3.8L SOHC 4bbl inline 6, 4-speed with factory A/C that still works. Even if I think I just lost a cylinder on Saturday after 104,000 miles
View attachment 669462
A family friend had a 1967 red LeMans convertible when I was a kid with the OHC 6 in it, made a big impression on me and have always wanted either a LeMans or Firebird with one. How long have you had that?
cammerjeff
Staff Sergeant
Thanks, I have been playing with those engines for over 40 years now. And it is a clue to my user name.
Only sense last November. Its a long drawn out story that started in the summer of 1999. I met the original owner in Denver when I was running my old 69 Sprint Firebird with a 301 Stroker OHC-6 at a Grudge race. The Inliners club (for any Straight 6 or 8 powered cars) had a good natured rivalry with the Flat head Ford club.
The original owner was there without the car as he had just had his left knee replaced and could not use the clutch. He asked if I would be interested in his mostly original California 67 Sprint FB 4-speed, factory A/C, Hood Tach with gauges, delux interior, rally II wheels. Still has the California emissions system intact. I said Hell Yes sight unseen and we made an agreement on the price that if I didn't like it I could pass on it. Well he passed away shortly after that meeting, and his son (who I also met in Denver) Sold it out from me to a Collector on the east coast. And I thought I would never see it again until it popped up on a national auction site in October of last year. I was the high bidder, but it didn't meet the reserve, but we were able to work out a deal on it about a month later. Here is the auction if you want to see more pictures of it.
bringatrailer.com
Only sense last November. Its a long drawn out story that started in the summer of 1999. I met the original owner in Denver when I was running my old 69 Sprint Firebird with a 301 Stroker OHC-6 at a Grudge race. The Inliners club (for any Straight 6 or 8 powered cars) had a good natured rivalry with the Flat head Ford club.
The original owner was there without the car as he had just had his left knee replaced and could not use the clutch. He asked if I would be interested in his mostly original California 67 Sprint FB 4-speed, factory A/C, Hood Tach with gauges, delux interior, rally II wheels. Still has the California emissions system intact. I said Hell Yes sight unseen and we made an agreement on the price that if I didn't like it I could pass on it. Well he passed away shortly after that meeting, and his son (who I also met in Denver) Sold it out from me to a Collector on the east coast. And I thought I would never see it again until it popped up on a national auction site in October of last year. I was the high bidder, but it didn't meet the reserve, but we were able to work out a deal on it about a month later. Here is the auction if you want to see more pictures of it.
1967 Pontiac Firebird Coupe Sprint 4-Speed
Bid for the chance to own a 1967 Pontiac Firebird Coupe Sprint 4-Speed at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #58,066.
chipieal
Airman
To begin with, I am a lifelong Mopar fanatic as illustrated by my profile picture. As to the second generation hemi - you must remember that it was a detuned racing engine. Yes they civilized it - to an extent. However, it took constant wrenching to keep it at its optimum. However a 440 Magnum could equal or better the hemi on the street with a lot les fuss about it. I refer you to a Car and Driver magazine article from 1970 in which they tested all of the combinations of Mopar muscle 1970 style. ( article entitled Rapid Transit) In a 1/4 mile drag race, the Magnum out performed the hemi. True at the end of the 1/4 the hemi was just getting its wind and would have left the 440 in the dust. BUT, how many 1970 drivers ever got a Hemi to this point on the street? Another interesting part of that article was that the 340 came damn close to both of these larger engine in 0 - 60 time.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
A friend of mine back in the 80's, had a bone stock '70 T/A Challenger that was packing a 340 with a six-pack and a Hurst 4-speed.
That thing was a beast and the only Mopar that I ever lusted after.
That thing was a beast and the only Mopar that I ever lusted after.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #654
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
That might be because you are old?
Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
Yeah man, that is a beauty, enjoy it, looking at the pics on the auction site brings back a lot of memories working on older Poncho's.Thanks, I have been playing with those engines for over 40 years now. And it is a clue to my user name.
Only sense last November. Its a long drawn out story that started in the summer of 1999. I met the original owner in Denver when I was running my old 69 Sprint Firebird with a 301 Stroker OHC-6 at a Grudge race. The Inliners club (for any Straight 6 or 8 powered cars) had a good natured rivalry with the Flat head Ford club.
The original owner was there without the car as he had just had his left knee replaced and could not use the clutch. He asked if I would be interested in his mostly original California 67 Sprint FB 4-speed, factory A/C, Hood Tach with gauges, delux interior, rally II wheels. Still has the California emissions system intact. I said Hell Yes sight unseen and we made an agreement on the price that if I didn't like it I could pass on it. Well he passed away shortly after that meeting, and his son (who I also met in Denver) Sold it out from me to a Collector on the east coast. And I thought I would never see it again until it popped up on a national auction site in October of last year. I was the high bidder, but it didn't meet the reserve, but we were able to work out a deal on it about a month later. Here is the auction if you want to see more pictures of it.
1967 Pontiac Firebird Coupe Sprint 4-Speed
Bid for the chance to own a 1967 Pontiac Firebird Coupe Sprint 4-Speed at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #58,066.
chipieal
I agree, the 440 was a beast but for sheer uniqueness I'd want the 426.As an aside, we had a 70 Dodge Dart "Swinger" with a 340 4bbl., 4 speed and functional hood scoops. I only got to drive it for a year as a senior in High School, good God was that thing FAST.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
My favorite Dart.
- Thread starter
- #658
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Got to love the Hemi, particularly in a black '68 Dodge Charger! 
I've got a soft spot for the 340 Six Pack!
I've got a soft spot for the 340 Six Pack!
Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
I think if our Dart had had the 340 six pack I wouldn't be here to chat with you today...
The 4bbl version was bad enough, I remember knocking many a V-8 Mustang for six quite often, small block Chevelle's too, the BIG BLOCKS though... eh, they were another story.
The 4bbl version was bad enough, I remember knocking many a V-8 Mustang for six quite often, small block Chevelle's too, the BIG BLOCKS though... eh, they were another story.
- Thread starter
- #660
