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I think you're right, they're not exhaust ports. Here is the Caproni's Fiat A.74 engine and there is an exhaust manifold just like any other radial.Yes, I meant the Caproni F.5 images you showed. I suspected they'd be some kind of exhaust stubs, but if one looks at the second picture from slightly the rear of the plane, it seems there's no hole for the exhaust pipe, those blisters seem to smoothly merge into the cowling at the rear?
Well said. But to its defence there was no better radial-powered, single-seat, single-engine fighter to come out of Britain until the Centaurus-powered Tempest and post-war Fury. I wonder if the F5/34 could defeat the best pre-war British-engined, raidial-powered single-seat, single-engined fighter to see service, the Fokker D.XXI.I am not making a secret of my dislike for the Gloster F.5/34. Basically take the guns out, jack up the very good canopy, build new plane and engine, stick the guns back in and lower the canopy and voila
The problem was in the size engines selected. They were seduced by the Sleeve valve into thinking it would give more power than it actually would. Or perhaps I should say that the poppet valve engines were easier to upgrade with better fuel. They stayed with the small engines too long.Bristol really let their side down with their sleeve valve distractions and delays, while what the Air Ministry needed was a two-row, 14 or 18-cylinder poppet valve engine, essential a double Bristol Neptune or Pegasus with sodium valves, better bearings,
Most likely rocker covers. Can see them on others of that era.Yes, I meant the Caproni F.5 images you showed. I suspected they'd be some kind of exhaust stubs, but if one looks at the second picture from slightly the rear of the plane, it seems there's no hole for the exhaust pipe, those blisters seem to smoothly merge into the cowling at the rear? Then again, I'm not seeing any other kind of exhaust pipe there either..?
I was thinking more generally of the 1930'ies fighters with enclosed cockpits being developed, almost none(?) of which had bubble/greenhouse style canopies. Like Hurricane, Spitfire, P-36/40, indeed P-51A/B, Bf 109, etc.
You might be right. The 24.9 L 9cyl Perseus led to the 38.7 L 14cyl Hercules rather than an 18cyl like the 46 L Pratt & Whitney R-2800. IIRC, the only British 14 cylinder poppet valve radial engines to enter service were the 32.7 L A/S Tiger and 48L Leopard (is Wikipedia right, 48L?).I am guessing that a 14 cylinder engine is easier than an 18 cylinder engine.
was never going to happen, unless what if the Air Ministry had some high ups with the vision to see the empire needed some decent machinery instead of obsolete biplanes & what if Leigh-Mallory had been persuaded to release some of the fighter squadrons he sat on in his ridiculous dog in a manger fashion, then you might have ended up with what if Singapore had a dozen of each decent fighter squadrons and light attack/dive bomber squadrons. In my what if, they're Hurricanes & Henleys, but I'd be happy to swap out the Hurricanes for a thin wing f5/34 with a double mercury up front, though Hurricanes & Henleys together makes some sense, but failing Henleys, what would we have for the dive bombers A Admiral Beez ?By Autumn 1941 two dozen squadrons of F5/34 are operational over Malaya.
If you want to blame someone you need to go higher up the command chain than Leigh Mallory.I must admit to having been somewhat of a F5/34 fanboy but after S Shortround6 's objective summing up of its short comings, I can see I was misguided in that. The comment earlier
was never going to happen, unless what if the Air Ministry had some high ups with the vision to see the empire needed some decent machinery instead of obsolete biplanes & what if Leigh-Mallory had been persuaded to release some of the fighter squadrons he sat on in his ridiculous dog in a manger fashion, then you might have ended up with what if Singapore had a dozen of each decent fighter squadrons and light attack/dive bomber squadrons. In my what if, they're Hurricanes & Henleys, but I'd be happy to swap out the Hurricanes for a thin wing f5/34 with a double mercury up front, though Hurricanes & Henleys together makes some sense, but failing Henleys, what would we have for the dive bombers A Admiral Beez ?
My What'if, as described below requires that the F5/34 is developed and produced in Canada, outside of the British Air Ministry but as a pre-war private venture, akin to the later Gregor FDB-1. Presumably we're substituting all (most?) of CC&F's Hawker Hurricane production with the Gloster, so Stalin is not getting his Canadian Hurricanes.was never going to happen...
In 1940 when Britain is looking for non-essential aircraft to send to Malaya, the AM team sent to look at the Brewster Buffalo and others also heads to Fort William, ON has a look at the first dozen or so thin-wing, R-1830 powered F5s. Sufficiently impressed the Air Ministry orders the aircraft to be produced for the RAF for shipment by rail to Vancouver and by sea to Malaya. Given the timing, I am likely being too ambitious on the two dozen squadrons (300 aircraft) by autumn 1941 (how many Hawker Hurricanes did CC&F produce by mid 1941?) but I expect at least a couple of squadrons of F5s to arrive in time to serve alongside the Brewster Buffalos.I have a what-if on my mind where upon his resignation Hawker Siddeley gives the F5/34 rights to its designer, Henry Folland (of Gnat fame). Folland then takes the prototypes and blueprints to CC&F in Fort William, Canada, where the F5/34 instead of the Gregor FDB-1 is produced using the P&W R-1830 Twin Wasp. Folland and CC&F's Elsie MacGill focus on improving the design and setting up Canadian production for both the RAF and FAA, while offering the F5/34 in CKD to CAC and HAL for Empire-wide production. By Autumn 1941 two dozen squadrons of F5/34 are operational over Malaya.
Look at the list of events the RAF had to cover. The France/German front, the Norwegian campaign, revolt in Iraq, Germany assisting Syria and FNA generally, Malta, Gibraltar, the North Sea and Biscay coast, NorthAtlantic generally, Libya and Egypt, Ethiopia and Somalia, Iran and UK Air Defence all before the far east. Something had to give and the far east was the least active, if at all. Move best air defence, medium/light bombers and maritime strike to the far east and they have to come from somewhere and, even with an AH PoD, from the same industry as IOTL.If you want to blame someone you need to go higher up the command chain than Leigh Mallory.
The British Chiefs of Staff were not satisfied that the threat of invasion in 1941 was over until Aug/Sept that year. Until then not much was going to be released for any other theatre.
When it was felt safe, the policy was to prioritise the Middle East over the Far East. In late 1941, 7 Hurricane squadrons were sent to the ME. Some delivered to Malta by carrier. Others intended for ME and southern USSR if required. It was the latter that were diverted to the Far East in Dec 1941.
A production Venom would have been Britain's first radial-powered, fabric-covered single-seat monoplane fighter since, IIRC the Bristol M.1. Something for the historians to note. As for an all-metal aircraft, a Perseus-powered mini-Hawker Sea Fury would be nice.Myself I would have been gluing a slightly scaled up Venom to the engines but that is just me.
A small nit-pick, but the Bristol M.1 had a rotary engine, not a radialA production Venom would have been Britain's first radial-powered, fabric-covered single-seat monoplane fighter since, IIRC the Bristol M.1.
You're right. Then the Venom would have been Britain's one and only fabric covered, radial-powered, single-engine monoplane fighter. As it was, the best British-powered of the sort was foreign-built in the Fokker D.XXI.A small nit-pick, but the Bristol M.1 had a rotary engine, not a radial
Agreed. And there are lots of prototypes that looks promising - I like that Westland Interceptor. But, it seems that Britain never had an operational radial powered, fabric coated monoplane fighter.But it certainly is a surprisingly small list
Kind of what I meant byIf you want to blame someone you need to go higher up the command chain than Leigh Mallory.
Not sure where but I have definitely read that L-M refused to release fighters for overseas deployment but it could have been referring more to Spitfires than fighters in general. If the A-M had been watching events in SEA with a critical eye, from the time Germany launched Unternehmen Barbarossa, & effectively quashed the likelihood of an invasion of the UK, it may not have been too late to reinforce Singapore. History shows us that there was a significant lack of agility in the way this was handled, as was much of the conduct of the war in the early years. Plus, they did not have any suitable aircraft to use in an effective attack role, though maybe even Hurribombers would have been better than the poor old Blenheim.what if the Air Ministry had some high ups with the vision to see the empire needed some decent machinery instead of obsolete biplanes