Controversial airplanes...

[FLYBOYJ]

The B-1 program did have issues in the 70's and alot had to do with cost and the media (as usual) attacked it. So the program was suspended with a handful of B-1As completed.
The program was restarted in the 80's for several reasons, resulting in the B-1B, which did have some changes and upgrades.
The irony of this, is now the media heat was off the B-1 and instead, directed at the B-2 program.

Just like the F-35 is the media whipping boy, next will come the B-21

4 B-1As built, 100 B-1Bs.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Just like the F-35 is the media whipping boy, next will come the B-21

4 B-1As built, 100 B-1Bs.

The B-1 is very near and dear to my family.

My Father in law.

New B-1B Bomber Sets 18 Aviation Records

 

[SaparotRob]

The B-1 really is a beautiful airplane. It's one of my jet favorites.

 

[GrumpyOldCrewChief]

I have it on good authority that all the B-1 airframes were "modded" out of the nuclear role, as part of a SALT-type agreement, several groups of years ago. Notionally, that would leave some of the B-52 fleet, and all of the B-2 fleet as the US's only heavy, long range nuclear flash bulb delivery systems. Is this wrong?

 

[SaparotRob]

I have it on good authority that all the B-1 airframes were "modded" out of the nuclear role, as part of a SALT-type agreement, several groups of years ago. Notionally, that would leave some of the B-52 fleet, and all of the B-2 fleet as the US's only heavy, long range nuclear flash bulb delivery systems. Is this wrong?

This must have been what I was thinking of. B-1 was controversial for whatever reasons. Brought back as a B-1 "lite" with reduced capabilities.

 

[Capt. Vick]

F-111 as well...

 

[GrauGeist]

This must have been what I was thinking of. B-1 was controversial for whatever reasons. Brought back as a B-1 "lite" with reduced capabilities.

The B-1 was resumed (as the "B") with enhanced capabilities in the 80's - it was in the 90's that it's rotary bomb-bay was modified to conform to SALT II requirements, but it's slated to receive new hardpoints to enable it to carry up to 31 hypersonic missiles.

 

[SaparotRob]

Now we're talking!

 

[vikingBerserker]

Possibly serve as a launching platform for the F-35, B-1 launches the missile and the F-35 takes over guidance. I think that's just ingenious!

 

[GreenKnight121]

But the F-35 is being asked to do the role of the 22.

By who? Not by the USAF. The primary mission of the F-35 is to drop bombs, end of story. "Joint STRIKE fighter."

By most of the other nations that have purchased it. You are correct it is primarily a bomber but a lot of nations cannot afford two types

Most of the other nations that have purchased it never had anything even in the class of the F-15, much less the F-22!
They had F-16s - which the F-35s are replacing.
So they are asking the F-35 to do the role of the F-16... which was to drop bombs/air-ground missiles, do some light battlefield air-air work, and do peacetime air-space policing.

 

[GreenKnight121]

Those nations that have bought the F-35 that had aircraft for the air-superiority role:

Britain had Tornado F.3s, replaced by Typhoons.
The Germans had F-4s, replaced by Typhoons.
The Italians had Tornado F.3s, replaced by Typhoons.
The Japanese had F-4s, replaced by F-15s.
The Israelis had F-4s, replaced by F-15s.

Everyone else has/had F-16s, except Australia which has/had upgraded F/A-18A&Bs.

 

[GrauGeist]

Canada currently has the CF-18 and will be upgrading to the F-35.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Canada currently has the CF-18 and will be upgrading to the F-35.

I don't think we will, instead we're likely getting Boeing Super Hornets.

Boeing: Boeing Canada - F/A-18E Super Hornet

 

[davparlr]

I don't think the F-35 has the threat penetration capability that the F-22 has and cannot as adequately perform the threat suppression mission.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I don't think the F-35 has the threat penetration capability that the F-22 has and cannot as adequately perform the threat suppression mission.

In an air-to-air role? It can most certainly detect the threat (at least the F-35A and C, I don't know if the F-35B has the same AEW capability as it's two brothers) how it deals with the threat is up for debate.

From LMCO F-35 info site:

"Advanced electronic warfare capabilities enable the F-35 to locate and track enemy forces, jam radio frequencies and disrupt attacks with unparalleled precision. All three variants of the F-35 carry active, electronically scanned array (AESA) radars with sophisticated electronic attack capabilities, including false targets, network attack, advanced jamming and algorithm-packed data streams. This system allows the F-35 to reach well-defended targets and suppress enemy radars that threaten the F-35. In addition, the ASQ-239 system provides fully integrated radar warning, targeting support, and self-protection, to detect and defeat surface and airborne threats.

While F-35 is capable of stand-off jamming for other aircraft — providing 10 times the effective radiated power of any legacy fighter — F-35s can also operate in closer proximity to the threat ('stand-in') to provide jamming power many multiples that of any legacy fighter.

"What we've done with the 5th Generation [aircraft] is the computer takes all those sensory inputs, fuses it into information. The pilot sees a beautiful God's eye view of what's going on. [...] It's a stunning amount of information."​

—Gen. Mike Hostage, Commander, Air Combat Command, U.S. Air Force​

The F-35's survivability, electronic attack, electronic protection, situational awareness, advanced targeting and unprecedented Combat ID will make the entire air wing better. Research indicates that adding more F-35s in a high threat environment is far more effective than adding more single-mission, electronic attack support aircraft. The electronic warfare suite on the F-35 gives improved emitter location capability over legacy aircraft."

 

[Admiral Beez]

By who? Not by the USAF. The primary mission of the F-35 is to drop bombs, end of story. "Joint STRIKE fighter."

By the USN I suppose. The navy must use the F-35 in the air superiority and fleet air defence role. Ever since the F-14 was ditched the USN has had to make due with strike aircraft as interceptor.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

By the USN I suppose. The navy must use the F-35 in the air superiority and fleet air defence role. Ever since the F-14 was ditched the USN has had to make due with strike aircraft as interceptor.

Currently not the plan - That's for the Super Hornet. The F-18 fulfills fleet defense just fine, the F-14 had to go and it was becoming a maintenance nightmare (I personally knew people who worked on them.) From LMCO:

https://www.f35.com/about/variants/f35c

 

[Admiral Beez]

Currently not the plan - That's for the Super Hornet.

Does that suggest that the Super Hornet offers the RCAF the NORAD-required intercept capability that the F-35 does not?

Now, a Canadian Tomcat, that would be something..... The CF-14-Eh Tomcat?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Does that suggest that the Super Hornet offers the RCAF the NORAD-required intercept capability that the F-35 does not?

Depends - Are you looking for just an interceptor or an aircraft with multi-sensors, AEW capability as well as a Stealth and conventional strike capability?

Now, a Canadian Tomcat, that would be something..... The CF-14-Eh Tomcat?

View attachment 595401

It would have worked 35 years ago, better NORAD interceptor then the CF-18

 

[Capt. Vick]

Does that suggest that the Super Hornet offers the RCAF the NORAD-required intercept capability that the F-35 does not?

Now, a Canadian Tomcat, that would be something..... The CF-14-Eh Tomcat?

View attachment 595401

Yup! Then this wouldn't be fantasy...