Corsair vs Lightning

evangilder · Nov 2, 2005

Well guys, I am still looking at pricing and what exactly I am going to stock and all. My example 16 x 20 should be here next week and I will see how good it's going to look. Thanks for the accolades guys.

Les, the copyright is kind of big, but I want to get more exposure (no pun intended) and so I want to make sure it gets read.I don't care if people download them as long as they remember where they came from. Anything sold will not have the copyright on the image itself.

the lancaster kicks ass · Nov 2, 2005

and the discount?

evangilder · Nov 2, 2005

How can I state any discounts if I am still looking at the pricing? Besides, are you really going to buy anything?

syscom3 · Nov 2, 2005

Evans, you should use Photoshop to put your head onto the pilot in the cockpit of these planes.

You can claim you were a qualified pilot for all the warbirds

)

evangilder · Nov 2, 2005

I could put my head in there, but I am not going to claim to be something I am not. Wouldn't be right. I have been fortunate to fly in some of these and have actually flown the AN-2, if only for about 10 minutes. But that is about the extent of it so far.

lesofprimus · Nov 2, 2005

CC paid for the shipping on a picture of a P-38 I drew, so its possible...

the lancaster kicks ass · Nov 2, 2005

and i might buy summit, depends if it's got a lanc on it anything comical will go down well too.........

evangilder · Nov 2, 2005

I have some old shots of the Lanc, not sure how good they are. I am still working the business end as I edit the shots for calendars and the like.

the lancaster kicks ass · Nov 3, 2005

well whatever happens it'll cirtainly be something i look forward too!

Gnomey · Nov 3, 2005

the lancaster kicks ass said:
well whatever happens it'll cirtainly be something i look forward too!

I will too.

evangilder · Nov 3, 2005

Back to the editting room. I created the first calendar and the photo quality was crap. Now that I know how the system works, I can fix that. My first calendar, "Classic Biplanes" should be available soon. I will be doing a lot of different aircraft themes as I go. I may also do calendars with individual aircraft, but I am still in the process of optimizing the images. Once that is all set, then I can start creating a mess of different ones.

If there is a particular theme you would like to see, let me know via PM and I will see what I have. So far, my list is classic biplanes, trainers, pacific war fighters, bombers and will probably do some nature themes. I know that one of the individual aircraft calendars will be the Corsair. There will probably be another on the Skyraider.

syscom3 · Nov 3, 2005

Pacific Warbirds!

That should be your theme.

NAVAIR · Nov 10, 2005

Ok, having read thru the entire thread, let me add my comments.

As air to air fighters, the P-38L would be my choice over any version of the -1 series Corsairs.

Why? Simple, the P-38 was vastly better in the vertical. It climbed much better, accelerated much, much faster and it had those marvelous Lockheed-Fowler flaps. In addition, torque was not a factor.

In a brawl between an F4U-1D and the P-38L, the Lightning holds most of the cards. All the P-38 jock has to do it take the fight vertical. In the vertical the -1 Corsair can't compete.

Don't get me wrong, the Corsair is very capable, it's just not ideal for mixing it up with the P-38. The F6F-5 would be a far better match for the P-38, because it handles better, climbs better than the F4U-1 series and has a lower wing loading than either of the others.

Now, if we compare the late-war F4U-4, the tables turn. It could fight in the vertical with the P-38. It had comparible acceleration and was faster at all altitudes below 27,000 feet. If it came down to a low speed turning fight, the P-38L has the advantage of a tighter turn radius when using flaps. However, at low speeds the P-38L's roll rate isn't very good, and the F4U's roll rate rivals that the Fw 190. So, it can change lift vectors almost instantly, making it hard for the P-38 to saddle-up. This one would depend on pilot skill. Overall, I believe the F4U-4 was a better fighter, but not by much.

My regards,

Navair

FLYBOYJ · Nov 10, 2005

NAVAIR said:
Why? Simple, the P-38 was vastly better in the vertical. It climbed much better, accelerated much, much faster and it had those marvelous Lockheed-Fowler flaps. In addition, torque was not a factor.

In a brawl between an F4U-1D and the P-38L, the Lightning holds most of the cards. All the P-38 jock has to do it take the fight vertical.

Agree! That's where many people miss the point in discussing air combat. Fighting in the vertical enables you neutralize any turning ability your opponent may have over you, it also enables you to break off easily when the advantage is lost....

wmaxt · Nov 10, 2005

NAVAIR said:
Now, if we compare the late-war F4U-4, the tables turn. It could fight in the vertical with the P-38. It had comparible acceleration and was faster at all altitudes below 27,000 feet. If it came down to a low speed turning fight, the P-38L has the advantage of a tighter turn radius when using flaps. However, at low speeds the P-38L's roll rate isn't very good, and the F4U's roll rate rivals that the Fw 190. So, it can change lift vectors almost instantly, making it hard for the P-38 to saddle-up. This one would depend on pilot skill. Overall, I believe the F4U-4 was a better fighter, but not by much.

My regards,

Navair

I to think they were very close and it's up to two things, Pilot skill and initial advantage.

The P-38 had differential throttles and an advantage of .4 mph/sec acceleration @ 15K METO power thats still significant. The speed advantage of the Corsair below 20k I dont know I've seen a P-38 outrun/turn tighter than a corsair in a race situation at low level so I din't think the differences are great. It is much more likely the F4U was modified but it was a 600mi race so they wern't hopped up to the max in anycase. I've never seen a speed graph on the Corsair or a roll rate chart either.

They were, P-38, F4U-4 IMHO the best fighters the US put up in WWII.

wmaxt

P38 Pilot · Nov 10, 2005

Great points there NAVAIR. Oh, your calendars look pretty cool Evan. I might want to buy one!

syscom3 · Nov 10, 2005

But in 1943, did the P38J model have anything over the F4U-1?

wmaxt · Nov 14, 2005

syscom3 said:
But in 1943, did the P38J model have anything over the F4U-1?

In most ways the P-38J exceeded the F4U-1
Speed 420mph METO in the P-38, 417mph WEP in the F4U
Climb was better P-38, 3200ft/min F4U 2,890ft/min
Load, the first F4Us didn't carry ordinance later it was 2,000lbs, the P-38 3,200lbs 4,000+ after the J-10.
The F4U out rolled all P-38s before the L
Range was better in the P-38 esp after the J-10, both internal and extended.

wmaxt

GregP · Nov 14, 2005

The Lightning had the armament on the centerline.

The Corsair had the 50s in the wings.

The greatest combat pilots in the world were Erich Hartmann, Gunther Rall, and Gerhard Barkhorn. Among these three men, they shot down over 950 aircraft.

All said that one on the cnterline was worth at least 2 or 3 in the wings. With their qualifications and demonstrated performance, I believe them.

I say the Lightning was better by FAR in armament due to better armament mounted on the centerline, plus it was longer range by far. In a fight, one on one, I'd say the pilot would make the difference. Roll would go to the Corsair while the armament would go, hands down, to the Lightning. In climb, they were pretty even with the Corsair a bit ahead (at least after the F4U-4), but the Lightning driver could say to the Corsair driver at any time, "Hey, feather one and see how far YOU get!"

Also, the Lightning driver could say, "Come on up and get me!" since the Lightning had a higher ceiling until the advent of the F4U-5, which was VERY late in the war and not much in combat.

As to speed, the Lightning could have flown at 150mph and STILL be impervious to the Corsair ... if the Corsair were 3,000 feet below and trying to climb up to fight. Height gives the pilot time and options. Range means he could tease the Corsair until the Vought driver had to go home. or he could ambush from height at any time.

All in all, I'd take a Lightning, the mount of the U.S.A.'s greatest Ace, Richard Bong ... but the Corsair ain't all that far behind, if at all.

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