Could the Allies defeat Germany only with air power?

[Procrastintor]

The correct way to deal with THAT is more pain, example, Tallboy to Hitler's bunker.

 

[tyrodtom]

For the record, Vietnam mostly saw bombs dropped in the middle of jungles, and against an enemy that had no definite military bases, and no factories to speak of. Nazi Germany was very different, if they bombed their factories beyond repair then the Luftwaffe would be out of bullets, bombs, and eventually planes. However, that is not easy to do, and each probably would have required a few tons of bombs each, and perhaps a Tallboy or two. But it could be done. Even without fighting Russia, the US had more industry (which was, helpfully, not being bombed) and resources from allies and from it's own soil, if, for example, the Romanian oil fields were bombed, Germany would have a tough time keeping their very advanced birds in the air, as they need gas. Also the allies had the option to just starve them, if you cut off all access to places not called Germany than there will be problems. Basically, the allies had two things Germany didn't, options, and time. Germany couldn't attack the US or UK, because they'd have to reroute their diminishing resources to develop and build long-range bombers, which would most likely not make it from Germany to the UK because of Britain's radar and interceptors, they couldn't retreat because they were already home, and they had no back up to fall on, they had no allies except Italy and Japan, and Italy stopped fighting in 1943, and Japan was on the other side of the world.

They didn't just drop more, but they dropped twice as much tonnage as was dropped by all the allies in WW2 in Europe and Asia, all on 3 countries with about twice the land area of California.
You may think they just re-arranged the trees in the jungle, but you can only miss so many times when that much is concentrated on that much land. The whole country is mostly "jungle", that's where most all their arms, supplies, and troops were.
Take the time to research how many casualties, the NVA, VC, and Viet people took. All the bombs didn't miss.
A waste, sure it was, just like most wars.

 

[VBF-13]

For the record, Vietnam mostly saw bombs dropped in the middle of jungles, and against an enemy that had no definite military bases, and no factories to speak of. Nazi Germany was very different, if they bombed their factories beyond repair then the Luftwaffe would be out of bullets, bombs, and eventually planes. However, that is not easy to do, and each probably would have required a few tons of bombs each, and perhaps a Tallboy or two. But it could be done. Even without fighting Russia, the US had more industry (which was, helpfully, not being bombed) and resources from allies and from it's own soil, if, for example, the Romanian oil fields were bombed, Germany would have a tough time keeping their very advanced birds in the air, as they need gas. Also the allies had the option to just starve them, if you cut off all access to places not called Germany than there will be problems. Basically, the allies had two things Germany didn't, options, and time. Germany couldn't attack the US or UK, because they'd have to reroute their diminishing resources to develop and build long-range bombers, which would most likely not make it from Germany to the UK because of Britain's radar and interceptors, they couldn't retreat because they were already home, and they had no back up to fall on, they had no allies except Italy and Japan, and Italy stopped fighting in 1943, and Japan was on the other side of the world.

That's not bad. I think I agree with much of it.

 

[bobbysocks]

The correct way to deal with THAT is more pain, example, Tallboy to Hitler's bunker.

and little adolphs answer to that is nerve gas in V2 rockets to london....and other southern towns in the uk. sure you want to risk that escalation??? that is easy to say while you are sitting in cleveland or tampa....would not be too happy with that decision if i lived in the uk.

 

[tyrodtom]

It's one thing to blockade a island nation, like Japan, the UK, and so forth.
But it a whole other problem to totally blockade a landlocked country from the air. You might be able to destroy railroads, canals, but you not going to totally stop horse and foot travel enough to starve them. You might be able to do it today with current technology, and most modern people's sedementry habits. But not in 1940's Europe.

 

[tyrodtom]

I think all the allies knew it'd be a big mistake to kill Hitler, his strategic vision probably shortened the war by at least a year.

 

[VBF-13]

The correct way to deal with THAT is more pain, example, Tallboy to Hitler's bunker.

Of course it would have to hit the bunker to have any chance. I learned that in the 6th Grade in our duck and cover drills. In the classroom they had us duck under the desk. Out in the hall we stood up against the wall and covered our head with our hands in case the bomb hit there.

 

[Procrastintor]

You know, your hands will PROOOBABLY stop a bomb.

 

[tyrodtom]

Plus how much of anything did the allies know of Hitler's bunker in 1945 ?

 

[VBF-13]

Can you imagine one of those big bombs hitting you on the head, the big lump that would cause?

 

[Procrastintor]

Ouch, might get a concussion, or maybe some back problems. Also, I'm not sure if they knew of Hitler's bunker.

 

[Procrastintor]

However, I'm sure it could be found if they spied on him or something.

 

[tyrodtom]

Hitler never even moved into the bunker till mid Jan. 45, before that he could be at the Wolfs Lair, or ???
We certainly had spies in Germany, but very little actionable intellegence of where Hitler was and when.
But I think it would be a mistake to kill him, with all the bad decisions he made, especially late in the war, he might have replaced by someone competent.

 

[Procrastintor]

Yeah, I agree Hitler should have been kept till the war was done, but its always good to make an example, you know like a weapon demo. They could have destroyed a factory with a grand slam or something. Basically they needed to use Shock and Awe.

 

[tyrodtom]

After Dresden, Hamburg, and so many other German cities and factories nothing but smoking ruins.
How much more shock and awe do you think they would have needed.

 

[Procrastintor]

Apparently more, they didn't quit till the USSR invaded, so I'm thinking a lot more, like, destroy all of their military bases, factories, and perhaps 1 MAYBE 2 high value civilian targets if it drags on past late 45'-46'

 

[tyrodtom]

At some point, if you don't use nukes that just might shock them, you got to send in the ground forces.
Even today, it can't be done just with airpower.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Apparently more, they didn't quit till the USSR invaded, so I'm thinking a lot more, like, destroy all of their military bases, factories, and perhaps 1 MAYBE 2 high value civilian targets if it drags on past late 45'-46'

Pretty much all of their "high value" civilian targets were already completely leveled.

Stuttgart where I lived for about 15 years is pretty much built on several manmade very large hills that were built out of the ruins. There are walking paths turn into memorials where you can look inside the hills and see thr rubble.

The Allies did a good job of destroying the cities with conventional weapons, and there was not a German civilian who was not shock and awed. I sat next to a woman on a bus, and she said she could still here the bombs falling. Same for my Grandmother, and my wifes.

Stuttgart
Nürnberg
Würzburg
Berlin
Hamburg
Frankfurt
Mainz
München
Kiel
Wilhelmshaven
Dresden

All flattened just to name a few...

 

[bobbysocks]

i was just thinking that hitler didnt move into the bunker until after the battle of the bulge i do believe. he took to it after the russians started advancing towards his place in the eastern forest...and since in this scenario the russians or any nations troops arent on the ground there is no pressure for hitler to hide. one thing hitler did understand was personal operation security and was erratic in his movements and travels. pin pointing where he will be and when was extremely difficult...hence the dozens of foiled assassination attempts. biggest thing is.. if you knock off hitler you may put in power a general who knows how to runa a war and manage recources. the isrealis during the 60s used clandestine operations to take out terrorist cells in france and europe they deemed were threats. they attacked one in paris and get everyone but a lowly lieutenant they figured was not a threat....that man turned out to be carlos the jackal. so sometimes assassination backfires on you. it did them.

 

[stona]

All the plots to remove Hitler after the mid war period, including the July plot, were effectively to have been coup d'états killing Hitler and replacing the Nazi regime with a military government. Killing Hitler was seen as essential since all members of the Wermacht, and obviously SS, had sworn a personal oath of allegiance to him The first thing this government would have attempted would have been the negotiation of a separate peace in the west.
Most historians would say that this was unrealistic and that the western allies would not have broken their agreements with Stalin and the USSR. I'm not so sure. That however is a rather different topic.
Cheers
Steve