Covid-19 reports

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Sep 8, 2021

33k in the air said:
That's the point. To show the rates within each vaccination status category. I thought this obvious.

How else can you compare whether the vaccines are indeed offer a lower rate of hospitalizations, ICU admissions, or deaths without separating the status groups and comparing the results of each status group to the others?

They are on a rate basis WITHIN each group. The numbers are clearly listed. How anyone could get confused by them is a mystery to me.

1.25% = unvaccinated (4,509 deaths out of 381,838 unvaccinated cases)
1.81% = partially vaccinated (326 / 18,048)
1.67% = fully vaccinated (63 / 3,782)

The rate at which partially or fully vaccinated persons have died within their respective status group is higher than unvaccinated. It's right there in the numbers. It's not a large difference, to be sure -- four- to five-tenths of a percentage point. But there is a difference. The question is, will the rates within the partially and fully vaccinated groups stay at current levels or will they drop as the sample of cases gets larger? Are the rate differences a factor of the smaller sample sizes in the partially and fully vaccinated categories? Only time will tell.

Lumping all the deaths and cases together as you suggest hides the fact that there are definite in-group rate differences. I would call that deliberate obfuscation. I would call that "fake news", "alternative facts" and misinformation, to use your jargon.

Why would someone want to hide in-group rate differences?

Because that is not how it works. Come on, I know you are smarter than that. If you are trying to show the percentage of vaccinated people who die versus the number of non-vaccinated who die, you have to use the total number of infections. That gives you the percentage of deaths that were vaccinated versus non-vaccinated. It's simple math and statistics 101. All you are doing is falsely portraying the data to support your biased agenda. But you already know that…

In rate group differences as you call them don't compare anything. You have to take the variables (i.e. vaccinated, non-vaccinated, etc.) and compare them against a like number to get an accurate percentage.

No one wants to hide in group data. But using the data to push and support false information as you are doing will be called out.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Sep 8, 2021

The Basket said:
Now my lung capacity had gone.

Ay Caramba. I am Donald Ducked.

Get well my friend.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Sep 8, 2021

The Basket said:
My goal is to say this is real.

I am real. I am not some bot or have an agenda.

So when I see or read any info from the anti vaxx or the conspiracy theorist then I can call nonsense on it.

Its sad we even have to have this discussion with these people.

just found out from my sister that her daughter and granddaughter have it as well.

ThomasP · Sep 8, 2021

When COVID ameliorating actions (ie social distancing, shut downs, etc) were first announced and went into effect, I thought perhaps the US had managed to retain the lessons of the past. I was not thinking of the average person, it is unreasonable to expect any particular person to remember/be aware of all the things that have happened in the past, but I hoped that the socio-economic-political power structure had.

As it turned out, of all our institutions, as a body only the public education system, the public health agencies, and the health care systems remembered, and acted accordingly.

I was already quite aware of the historical aspect regarding the evil behavior of people during past epidemics, and while it was despicable, the level of evil efforts was (relative to today) considerably less. I had expected the usual amount of ignorance and mental illness to be a significant (but relatively small) problem. I really had not expected various people and groups to go out of their way to abuse the ignorant and the mentally ill to such an extent, to the point of actively killing people through deliberate misinformation in order to gain political and socio-economic (ie media/social media) power. The adverse effects of attempts at direct economic gain (ie snake oil sales of hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, etc) pale to the point of insignificance in comparison to the harm caused by other types of misinformation (ie anti-social distancing, anti-mask, anti-vaccination, anti-medical system, etc).

We could have done much better if more of our socio-economic-political leaders (and other groups and individuals) had behaved in a competent/non-evil manner.

I would have liked it if I did not have to feel embarrassed by the behavior my country.

at6 · Sep 9, 2021

The new strains don't care if you are vaccinated or not. They still get you. No one knows what the MU strain will do but there is a concern that it will kill even the vaccinated apparently. Therefore, I will still practice ALL of the protocols including the avoidance of ladies who sell their wares on the street corner.

gumbyk · Sep 9, 2021

at6 said:
The new strains don't care if you are vaccinated or not. They still get you. No one knows what the MU strain will do but there is a concern that it will kill even the vaccinated apparently. Therefore, I will still practice ALL of the protocols including the avoidance of ladies who sell their wares on the street corner.

While you can still catch it, you're far less likely to end up hospitalised.

Gnomey · Sep 9, 2021

33k in the air said:
That's the point. To show the rates within each vaccination status category. I thought this obvious.

How else can you compare whether the vaccines are indeed offer a lower rate of hospitalizations, ICU admissions, or deaths without separating the status groups and comparing the results of each status group to the others?

They are on a rate basis WITHIN each group. The numbers are clearly listed. How anyone could get confused by them is a mystery to me.

1.25% = unvaccinated (4,509 deaths out of 381,838 unvaccinated cases)
1.81% = partially vaccinated (326 / 18,048)
1.67% = fully vaccinated (63 / 3,782)

The rate at which partially or fully vaccinated persons have died within their respective status group is higher than unvaccinated. It's right there in the numbers. It's not a large difference, to be sure -- four- to five-tenths of a percentage point. But there is a difference. The question is, will the rates within the partially and fully vaccinated groups stay at current levels or will they drop as the sample of cases gets larger? Are the rate differences a factor of the smaller sample sizes in the partially and fully vaccinated categories? Only time will tell.

Lumping all the deaths and cases together as you suggest hides the fact that there are definite in-group rate differences. I would call that deliberate obfuscation. I would call that "fake news", "alternative facts" and misinformation, to use your jargon.

Why would someone want to hide in-group rate differences?

Your still misreading the statistics.

I can tell you without statistics that the vaccines work, don't need statistics to see what I can see everyday with my own eyes…

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Sep 9, 2021

Gnomey said:
Your still misreading the statistics.

I can tell you without statistics that the vaccines work, don't need statistics to see what I can see everyday with my own eyes…

You are just a doctor. What the hell do you know?

FLYBOYJ · Sep 9, 2021

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
You are just a doctor. What the hell do you know?

I'm not a doctor but I read the manual!!

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Sep 9, 2021

FLYBOYJ said:
I'm not a doctor but I read the manual!!

But do you know how to read the charts?

FLYBOYJ · Sep 9, 2021

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
But do you know how to read the charts?

Yes! They are self explanatory!

at6 · Sep 9, 2021

I'm not a doctor but I will give free breast exams.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Sep 9, 2021

at6 said:
I'm not a doctor but I will give free breast exams.

I cannot wait to fly back home tomorrow so I can give one.

Marcel · Sep 10, 2021

Gnomey said:
Your still misreading the statistics.

I can tell you without statistics that the vaccines work, don't need statistics to see what I can see everyday with my own eyes…

So what effect do you see Hugh? I'm really interested in what the real effect is of the vaccines, also in combination with the different variants of the virus and the different types of vaccines. Would be great to hear some personal experiences instead of the things in the media.

The Basket · Sep 10, 2021

I had a packet of crisps and no idea what flavour they were. Then tried curry sauce again no flavour. Bbq sauce again couldn't taste them.

Absolutely bizarre.

I feel much better now and hopefully over the worst of it. Still a bit poorly and lacking taste but back on the mend.

Didn't need hospital so maybe vaccine worked or my health was good enough. Dunno.

But thank you for the best wishes.

at6 · Sep 10, 2021

Just gave myself an 80 proof Covid test. Test came back negative for Covid and positive for slight buzz.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Sep 10, 2021

The Basket said:
I had a packet of crisps and no idea what flavour they were. Then tried curry sauce again no flavour. Bbq sauce again couldn't taste them.

Absolutely bizarre.

I feel much better now and hopefully over the worst of it. Still a bit poorly and lacking taste but back on the mend.

Didn't need hospital so maybe vaccine worked or my health was good enough. Dunno.

But thank you for the best wishes.

Good tp hear you are on the upside.

Gnomey · Sep 10, 2021

Marcel said:
So what effect do you see Hugh? I'm really interested in what the real effect is of the vaccines, also in combination with the different variants of the virus and the different types of vaccines. Would be great to hear some personal experiences instead of the things in the media.

Much less admissions and ITU requirement. Without vaccine we peaked at ~75 ITU COVIDs and ~550 total inpatients (around 55% hospital capacity and 250% ITU capacity). Now with the vaccine and similar levels of community transmission we have ~50 inpatients and ~15 on ITU (all non vaccinated or antivax). Less than 5 vaccinated ITU patients (all single dose) very few deaths for the most part among vaccinated population.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Sep 10, 2021

Gnomey said:
Much less admissions and ITU requirement. Without vaccine we peaked at ~75 ITU COVIDs and ~550 total inpatients (around 55% hospital capacity and 250% ITU capacity). Now with the vaccine and similar levels of community transmission we have ~50 inpatients and ~15 on ITU (all non vaccinated or antivax). Less than 5 vaccinated ITU patients (all single dose) very few deaths for the most part among vaccinated population.

Unfortunately these people think you are part of the great global conspiracy to control them. Free your mind!

ThomasP · Sep 10, 2021

To be fair, some are just ignorant and afraid. The same personal fear(?) - not sure of the right wording for this aspect of human behavior - generated by ignorance, occurred during the previous pandemics also. And this fear is endemic (at a relatively low noise level) even during non-pandemic times.

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