Crash spitfire in France

[stona]

To add to the above, many if not all war birds today wear schemes that whilst usually authentic in themselves are not appropriate to the particular aircraft in question. The Spitfire that is the subject of this thread is a case in point.
The BBMF Lancaster has literally just emerged from a major overhaul and re-paint which continues the tradition of having the port and starboard sides in the colours of two different aircraft, again, both authentic in themselves but nothing to do with this particular Lancaster. I think its a brilliant way for the aircraft to do what it does, serve as a memorial to the men and women of Bomber Command.

At the end of the day a privately owned war bird can be painted in anyway the owner wants to paint it, it's not our business to tell them how to do it! I don't expect my next door neighbour to tell me how to paint my kitchen

Another Spitfire, NH341, made a wheels up landing or more likely suffered an undercarriage collapse at Sywell yesterday.

Nobody was hurt and the damage does not appear too bad.

I'll bet this one will soon be flying again. The restoration was only completed in March this year.

This aircraft obviously did not have two seats when it shot down two Bf 109s in June 1944, but should we criticise the current owner/operators for making a commercial decision to make the conversion. I think not.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Wayne Little]

 

[Venturi]

Throttled up too fast with brakes on..

 

[Robert Porter]

Yep, any owner can do literally anything they want to their property, including torch it and burn it to the ground. I have no argument actually with owners rights. It is their right and I certainly would not want someone dictating to me how to paint/use/display my property. That being said, I go back to my original point, while they have the right, I think it is morally irresponsible to continue to fly and risk such rare airframes. Those that are frankensteins, built from multiple aircraft and parts I have no issue with. Those that are fully or mainly original I do. But no one has to listen to my opinion, nor do I have to listen or agree with theirs. It is just that, opinion, not a law.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Throttled up too fast with brakes on..

That's speculation and I'd like to know what you're basing that on.

 

[Robert Porter]

The news article I read said they landed without the gear being fully locked.

Nazi-fighting Spitfire worth £3million crash lands | Daily Mail Online

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The news article I read said they landed without the gear being fully locked.

Nazi-fighting Spitfire worth £3million crash lands | Daily Mail Online

That one happened in the UK. My comment is in regards to the first video

 

[Robert Porter]

Ah, then I agree, too little information, some of the speculation I have seen discussed is an irregularity in the field caused a bounce as the aircraft approached V2 speed during its takeoff roll. But as far as I know no definitive information has been released as to the cause of the crash at this point.

 

[stona]

The news article I read said they landed without the gear being fully locked.

Nazi-fighting Spitfire worth £3million crash lands | Daily Mail Online

I think that is quite likely. It wouldn't be the first and it won't be the last Spitfire to come a cropper in this way. I'm sure the AAIB will sort it out.

Amazingly that Daily Fail....err I mean Mail....article is, as far as a quick read reveals, error free

Cheers

Steve

 

[stona]

That one happened in the UK. My comment is in regards to the first video

I agree that "Throttled up too fast with brakes on.." is pure conjecture, though applying brakes on the take off run seems counter-intuitive to put it mildly. I did notice full up elevator in an attempt to save the situation, but to no avail.
That Mark of Spitfire only has a couple of inches of clearance for the propeller once the tail comes up and was not usually operated from grass fields. The propeller certainly struck the ground, but the whys and wherefores we don't know.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Robert Porter]

By no means am I an expert but I looked at the video frame by frame and it appears it hit a depression, then on the downward bounce the prop struck, full up elevator appears to be applied just after the bounce and it also slewed slightly to the left as the tail came up. Hard for me to guess causation of course.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I agree that "Throttled up too fast with brakes on.." is pure conjecture, though applying brakes on the take off run seems counter-intuitive to put it mildly. I did notice full up elevator in an attempt to save the situation, but to no avail.
That Mark of Spitfire only has a couple of inches of clearance for the propeller once the tail comes up and was not usually operated from grass fields. The propeller certainly struck the ground, but the whys and wherefores we don't know.
Cheers
Steve

Steve - I have about 60 hours flying tail wheel aircraft and by no means an expert or an authority in flying something like a Spitfire, I leave that to our local Mustang pilot but I do know that applying brakes on takeoff is not SOP on just about any tail wheel aircraft - from a Cub to a Mustang and Spitfire. It seems he got the tail up very quickly and as you said there is not a lot of clearance between the propeller and the ground. I flown a 180 HP Supercub and the stick is always in my belly until I feel the tail wheel unglue.

Unless one knows for certain or can speak from experience, speculation should be left to the experts or to those investigating this mishap. Very sad about this aircraft but more importantly, the pilot walked away.

 

[rochie]

Damn shame, was due to perform at this years flying legends, was looking forward to seeing it.

 

[gumbyk]

Steve - I have about 60 hours flying tail wheel aircraft and by no means an expert or an authority in flying something like a Spitfire, I leave that to our local Mustang pilot but I do know that applying brakes on takeoff is not SOP on just about any tail wheel aircraft - from a Cub to a Mustang and Spitfire. It seems he got the tail up very quickly and as you said there is not a lot of clearance between the propeller and the ground. I flown a 180 HP Supercub and the stick is always in my belly until I feel the tail wheel unglue.

Unless one knows for certain or can speak from experience, speculation should be left to the experts or to those investigating this mishap. Very sad about this aircraft but more importantly, the pilot walked away.

I agree, although, there are occasions for the use of a very short application, such as x-wind. I've got suspicions on what happened, but its all conjecture at this stage, so I'll keep them to myself.

I'd note Jo, that the experts won't even be speculating...

 

[stona]

According to Aero Legends yesterday

"The reduction gear was assessed for run out and was spot on so a replacement propeller will be fitted tomorrow to check the engine which we expect to be ok. Flaps were replaced today with another set to allow the originals to be repaired. The air intake and radiator boats were removed and repairs commenced. Making great progress."

The engine has been run today. I expect this one will soon be flying, and making money, for the summer season.

"Fantastic news! Martin Overall with his team of Historic Flying Ltd and Aircraft Restoration Company engineers have performed engine runs today having assessed the damage caused by the landing on Friday."

There is a video of this on their Facebook page.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Crimea_River]

Wasn't the spar broken?

Never mind. Didn't realize you were talking about NH341.

 

[pbehn]

Wasn't the spar broken?

I read that, but maybe it looks that way because we dont normally see a spitfire upside down with no load on the wings.

 

[stona]

Wasn't the spar broken?

Never mind. Didn't realize you were talking about NH341.

I have no idea what the damage was to PS890, but I don't think it will be flying again in the near future.

Luckily NH341 suffered an undercarriage collapse, much less energy and damage than a wheels up landing as initial reports suggested.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Crimea_River]

I read that, but maybe it looks that way because we dont normally see a spitfire upside down with no load on the wings.

No way.

 

[gumbyk]

A broken spar isn't as big a deal as you'd think. Airframe Assemblies in the UK manufacture them.
Talk about a niche market!!!