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Some very intersting and inciteful comments. Id say the turning point came about 1938 or so. Germany's decision to focus on tactical support made the LW unsuited to sustained air operations, in which direct support of the armies was not the focus. The things the LW did well were related to support of the army, whether that be CAS, air superiority over the battlefield or tacair ops just behind the front. Later in the war they were able to adaprt enough to make a decent showing of air defence issues, but on the offensive, they were simply out of their depth as far as taking and holding air superiority over a wide and deep area like SE England.
Late 1940 Germany attempted to interdict British seaports via bombing. As previously discussed, WWII era Port of London was essentially in the center of town. So bombing the seaport with 1940s technology means some bombs will hit the city accidently. However London per se wasn't the target.
The turning point for me is when the invasion was called off, the LW maybe could have done better as others have described but never came remotely close to defeating the RAF. They needed to destroy the RAF completely but were losing a war of attrition.
They did come close to defeating Fighter Command and particularly 11 Group. This despite their inept waging of the campaign.
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For the Germans the Battle of Britain WAS Operation Sea Lion, the battle that was never fought. In the years prior to 1939 there had never been a need to plan for it and no advantage that the Luftwaffe might gain over the RAF could make up for a lack of long term naval preparation. The RN was still the primary obstacle to invasion and, as Assman wrote, "everyone concerned with the operation knew this."
If you extend a turning point retrospectively, as Parsifal did for the Luftwaffe, I would suggest that the lack of long term naval planning, to enable the Kriegsmarine to confront the RN was a more crucial historical point. Nothing the Luftwaffe could ever have done could have facilitated the invasion.
Cheers
Steve
By shooting down the Luftwaffe fighters attacking the bombers, and this is exactly why Kesselring and his senior staff were urging a switch from attacking the airfields to London.Yet the USAAF did target cities and in doing so decimated the Luftwaffe.
According to the author Stephen Bungay, the turning point was in 1915, with the first German air attacks on the UK. After that date the defence of Britain air space was always a major priority for the RAF.Some very intersting and inciteful comments. Id say the turning point came about 1938 or so.
There was a German raider shed its bombs on London . Churchill ordered a raid on Berlin in reprisal. Adolph insisted that no bombs be dropped on London without his permission, so he gave permission.
The raids on Berlin were in reality retaliation for the persistent bombing of British conurbations and the high level of British casualties that resulted. In July 258 civilians had been killed, in August 1075; the figures included 136 children and 392 women. During the last half of August, as German bombers moved progressively farther inland, bombs began to fall on the outskirts of London. On the night of the 18/19, bombs fell on Wimbledon, Croydon and the Maldens. On the night of the 22/23 the first bombs fell on central London in attacks described by observers as "extensive" and for which no warning was given; on the night of 24/25 August bombs fell in Slough, Richmond and Dulwich. On the night the RAF first raided Berlin, bombs fell on Banstead, Croydon, Lewisham, Uxbridge, Harrow and Hayes. On the night of the next raid on Berlin, on 28/29 August, German aircraft bombed the following London areas: Finchley, St Pancaras, Wembley, Wood Green, Southgate, Crayford, Old Kent Road, Mill Hill, Illford, Hendon, Chigwell. London was under red warning for 7 hours 5 minutes. The bombing of London began almost 2 weeks before Hitler's speech on 4 September, and well before the first raid on Berlin
I agree with Dave, the biggest was the switch from military to civilian targets. This allowed the RAF to rebuild.
Pretty simplistic view, though, Milosh, considering the USAAF was targeting specific targets within the cities, not just the cities themselves - they didn't just swan over and attack Cologne for the hell of it to achieve victory
Id say the turning point came about 1938 or so. Germany's decision to focus on tactical support made the LW unsuited to sustained air operations, in which direct support of the armies was not the focus. The things the LW did well were related to support of the army, whether that be CAS, air superiority over the battlefield or tacair ops just behind the front.
They did come close to defeating Fighter Command and particularly 11 Group. This despite their inept waging of the campaign.
I'm trying to help my daughter with her homework which has asked her for crucial turning points during the Battle of Britain.
Now I have a fair idea of how the battle flowed but I'm not really sure that I can locate the crucial points when the British won and the Axis lost.
yep, i have to agree gixxerman, and with the greatest respect Steve, I think you are overplaying or overstating the real crisis that beset FC by the end of August.
I'm only going by what Park and Dowding said to Evill et alter in that Bentley Priory meeting on 7th September. The critical shortage was in operational pilots. I've posted the figures many times in other discussions.
It was most certainly not the case that "by the end of September the RAF was as strong as ever".
This stems from a contention in the BOB pamphlet published during the war and from which many historians (who should know better) have quoted uncritically. Even Dowding himself felt moved to correct this particular assertion. He pointed out that Fighter Command was receiving four-fifths of Service Flying Training Schools (SFTS) output, overloading the OTUs with 80-90 pupils who they had to turn out at the end of a fortnight "as best they could."
Consequently about 120 pilots per week had to be brought up to standard in mainly 'C' class squadrons, each having 16 non-operational pilots each. Twenty such 'C' class squadrons were effectively non-operational. Dowding doubted that they would be capable of intercepting unescorted bomber formations.
Cheers
Steve
Raw numbers need careful analysis. Many historians just don't do this. From July to October 1940 the Luftwaffe lost 2,662 airmen, many times more than the British. They also lost 1,887 aircraft, substantially more than the RAF.
It is interesting to make a comparison of fighter losses (Bf 109 and Bf 110 for the Luftwaffe)
The RAF lost 1,023 aircraft, almost all Spitfires and Hurricanes. The Luftwaffe lost 873 Bf 109s and Bf 110s.
When we compare fighter crew losses the story is also different. The RAF lost 537, the Luftwaffe 551. Obviously some RAF fighters were shot down by bombers but the rather similar figures, bearing in mind that the Luftwaffe was operating over enemy territory and that the Bf 110 had two crewmen, tell an interesting story.
I'm just saying that raw data can be misleading and often needs careful interpretation. It's what good historians do.
My figures are from 'The Battle of Britain Then and Now'. The exact numbers vary very slightly from source to source but these are about as good as it gets
Cheers
Steve
The constant bombing of airfields and support infrastructure was most certainly taking it's toll on RAF operations, when the Luftwaffe shifted it's concentration away from these targets, it allowed the RAF to rebuild and reinforce it's assets.It wasn't the RAF that needed rebuilding. Fighter Command had pretty much maintained strength throughout the worst period of the battle. It was the Luftwaffe that desperately needed a change of tactics.
so on balance a stalemate of sorts which was all the RAF needed.
The constant bombing of airfields and support infrastructure was most certainly taking it's toll on RAF operations, when the Luftwaffe shifted it's concentration away from these targets, it allowed the RAF to rebuild and reinforce it's assets.
How badly was it affecting RAF ground operations?
In the past I've tried to quantify it. The hard data I've been able to find covers RAF aircraft destroyed on the ground and RAF personnel killed on the ground.
Fighter Command aircraft destroyed on the ground:
25 August - 20
28 August - 5
4 September - 4
25 September - 1
Not only are those figures low, they do not suggest any sort of escalation in the ability of the Luftwaffe to destroy FC aircraft on the ground. In fact they suggest the opposite.
RAF personnel killed on the ground (21 August - 5 September only):
21 August - 2
26 August - 4
31 August - 40 (according to Dowding all 40 were killed when a bomb exploded in a trench they were taking cover in)
1 September - 3
If the Luftwaffe were having a significant impact on RAF operations I'd have expected to see them inflicting increasing damage on RAF bases, as the RAF became unable to defend them properly. The statistics don't show that.
The other area I'd expect to see an effect is in serviceability rates. If the airfields were being heavily damaged, it should have made it harder to repair planes after combat, and decrease the serviceability rate. Air Commodore Peter Dye, from the RAF Historical Branch, gave 3 figures for Fighter Command serviceability rates:
An RAF study in 1945
July - 92%
August - 89%
September - 90%
October - 88%
The official history of the RAF:
Nov 1939 - 80%
Jul 1940 - 76%
September 1940 - 80% ("where it stayed for the remainder of the year")
A Fighter Command Research Branch study from 1949:
"the average number of serviceable aircraft per squadron across
11 and 13 Groups was in excess of 15 for the period July to October 1940."
Certainly the Luftwaffe did some damage to the RAF. But the statistics do not suggest it was particularly significant.