Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 42,970
- Mar 26, 2007
Well...then a happy birthday might warm you a tad up.
**** DONE: GB-56 1/48 P-47C - Thunderbolts and Lightning
- Thread starter Donivanp
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #82
Donivanp
Major
In spite of feeling poorly I did get a gloss coat on the Thunderbolt.
Vic Balshaw
Major General
You got a good shine there Don. Hope you feel better soon. 
Crimea_River
Marshal
With Vic.
- Thread starter
- #85
Donivanp
Major
Felling better today, thank you all for the wishes.
I have a dilemma. Standard USAAF wing markings are port side upper wing starboard side down. The Tamiya P-47 D calls for both wings underside, the starboard having a small star and the port having a larger star. The decals from Lone Star Models doesn't cover the wing decals. Kits World KW148224 covers the aircraft and shows the standard markings USAAF. Unfortunately, I know this to be wrong....... As can be seen from the photos, the port lower has the star and bars..... I can't find an upper photo to confirm anything else!
I need to know if there are two lower and one upper or as in the earlier marking the roundles only on the port upper and lower? AHHHHH I just don't know what to do..... Any help will be greatly appreciated.
I have a dilemma. Standard USAAF wing markings are port side upper wing starboard side down. The Tamiya P-47 D calls for both wings underside, the starboard having a small star and the port having a larger star. The decals from Lone Star Models doesn't cover the wing decals. Kits World KW148224 covers the aircraft and shows the standard markings USAAF. Unfortunately, I know this to be wrong....... As can be seen from the photos, the port lower has the star and bars..... I can't find an upper photo to confirm anything else!
I need to know if there are two lower and one upper or as in the earlier marking the roundles only on the port upper and lower? AHHHHH I just don't know what to do..... Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Standard markings on the upper side, star and bars on port wing only.
Oversized star and bars was applied under the port wing, in the field, with standard size under starboard wing, as an extra I.D. to prevent possible misidentification as a FW190. However, if factory applied, both underwing markings could be the larger type.
I can't reach my references to check dates at the moment, but from memory, this happened from late 1943, and the practice ceased on new or replacement aircraft reaching units by mid 1944, although, of course, both "styles" could still be seen up to the end of the European war.
Oversized star and bars was applied under the port wing, in the field, with standard size under starboard wing, as an extra I.D. to prevent possible misidentification as a FW190. However, if factory applied, both underwing markings could be the larger type.
I can't reach my references to check dates at the moment, but from memory, this happened from late 1943, and the practice ceased on new or replacement aircraft reaching units by mid 1944, although, of course, both "styles" could still be seen up to the end of the European war.
- Thread starter
- #87
Donivanp
Major
Thanks Terry, I'm going to make a wing ding guess from this and go for it…..
Thanks again!!!!!!
- Thread starter
- #89
Donivanp
Major
Thanks Wurger, I have all of these, I'm going for later markings and I was looking for full bottom markings. I think Terry has it nailed.
I agree with Terry as well. However have a look at the two shots. These are of the LM-C Jug. The pics are dated on 1943 and it looks like had been taken before the white bars were added to the US markinings. Also it seems that these are of the same period of time like the shots taken in flight while escorting the B-24s. If the Jugs of the 62nd FS were marked in the same way it means that there could be three US stars applied at the wings. Two bigger at the bottom of the port and starboard wing and the smaller on on the top of the port one. I have seen somewhere shots of the LM-G that had the same layout of national markings but with bars applied. IMHO it is very likely that the bottom and top US stars got the bars only with the correct outline if needed. If I'm right it would mean that the LM-O had just the "variant" of markings.
the source: 62nd Fighter Squadron P-47C 41-6209 LM-C 1st. Lt. Stover, RAF Halesworth Suffolk, Oudelandsedijk, Oude Tonge, Holland
the source: 62nd Fighter Squadron P-47C 41-6209 LM-C 1st. Lt. Stover, RAF Halesworth Suffolk, Oudelandsedijk, Oude Tonge, Holland
- Thread starter
- #91
Donivanp
Major
Thanks this is great info.
No problemo ...
and the LM-G i found ... the third and fourth enlarged shots are slightly blurry but the US national marking can be noticed.
the large US star on the port undersides
the large one on the starboard bottom
the US star on the top of the port wing
the source: 56th Fighter Group in World War II
and the LM-G i found ... the third and fourth enlarged shots are slightly blurry but the US national marking can be noticed.
the large US star on the port undersides
the large one on the starboard bottom
the US star on the top of the port wing
the source: 56th Fighter Group in World War II
Nicely done so far!
- Thread starter
- #94
Donivanp
Major
Thanks for the quick response, here is an update. I found a set of microscale decals for F4U. Trying to use the national insignia.
fubar57
General
Good info gents. Glad you're feeling better Don
Vic Balshaw
Major General
This is good Don and the members of this forum always come good with info. 
Crimea_River
Marshal
Looking good and glad you're feeling better.
le_steph40
Chief Master Sergeant
Hello,
Here is what is written in "Fighting Units in color: 56th FG Pt.1 Kings Cliffe Kindergarden - Halesworth Heyday" by Nigel Julian, Peter Randall and Zbigniew Kolacha.
"National insignia in the ETO originally consisted of an Insignia White star on an Insignia Blue disc. These were applied to the port upper and starboard lower wing surfaces and were 45" in diameter, with those on each side of the fuselage measuring 35". Due to concerns that the P-47 might be mistaken for the Fw 190; they being the only monoplane, radial engined, front-line fighters in use in the ETO at the time, instructions were issued on 20th February 1943 for a a revision of the markings. An additional insignia was added to the port lower wing surface at 55" or 60" diameter, with the starboard one being increased in diameter to match - the original one being painted out before the new size one was applied. Those en the fuselage had 2" wide Identification Yellow outlinne added. In addition, a 24" white band was applied to the front of the cowling. The 24" being measured from the cowling lip and taking account the surface curvature...
... In July of 1943, a new version was introduced which included white rectangles either side of the insignia with inner edges conforming to the curvature of the blue disc. The whole was then oulined in red, to a width equivalent to one eighth of the radius of the blue disc. The red outline was finally changed to blue by an order dated 14th August 1943, requiring the changes to be carried out by 17th September. However, many red outlinnes were still to be found much later in the year, or was held up for some reason. It is known from their operations recard, that the 4th FG did not receive the order to change the outline from red to blue until November 1943, and there is no reason to suspect that the other Groups differed in this".
Here is what is written in "Fighting Units in color: 56th FG Pt.1 Kings Cliffe Kindergarden - Halesworth Heyday" by Nigel Julian, Peter Randall and Zbigniew Kolacha.
"National insignia in the ETO originally consisted of an Insignia White star on an Insignia Blue disc. These were applied to the port upper and starboard lower wing surfaces and were 45" in diameter, with those on each side of the fuselage measuring 35". Due to concerns that the P-47 might be mistaken for the Fw 190; they being the only monoplane, radial engined, front-line fighters in use in the ETO at the time, instructions were issued on 20th February 1943 for a a revision of the markings. An additional insignia was added to the port lower wing surface at 55" or 60" diameter, with the starboard one being increased in diameter to match - the original one being painted out before the new size one was applied. Those en the fuselage had 2" wide Identification Yellow outlinne added. In addition, a 24" white band was applied to the front of the cowling. The 24" being measured from the cowling lip and taking account the surface curvature...
... In July of 1943, a new version was introduced which included white rectangles either side of the insignia with inner edges conforming to the curvature of the blue disc. The whole was then oulined in red, to a width equivalent to one eighth of the radius of the blue disc. The red outline was finally changed to blue by an order dated 14th August 1943, requiring the changes to be carried out by 17th September. However, many red outlinnes were still to be found much later in the year, or was held up for some reason. It is known from their operations recard, that the 4th FG did not receive the order to change the outline from red to blue until November 1943, and there is no reason to suspect that the other Groups differed in this".
And the next P-47Cs of the 62nd FS in 1943.
LM-A
LM-W
the two large US stars with bars can be noticed on the undersides ...
the source: Halesworth | American Air Museum
LM-A
LM-W
the two large US stars with bars can be noticed on the undersides ...
the source: Halesworth | American Air Museum
