Douglas A-20 Havoc

From Joe B's......

"Since the USAAF had no night fighter units when the USA entered World War 2, a night fighter training organization was established at Orlando, Florida. Most of the P-70 Nighthawk aircraft served there with the 481st Night Fighter Operational Training Group to develop tactics and procedures for radar-controlled night interceptions and to train the crews of nineteen night fighter squadrons. Very few of these P-70s ever went overseas, most remaining in the USA to be passed on to the next night fighter units that needed to be trained. Most units trained on the P-70 were reequipped with the Northrop P-61 Black Widow before they transferred overseas.

Only five night fighter squadrons were still equipped with P-70s at the time they were deployed overseas. Four P-70-trained night fighter squadrons were sent with their aircraft to North Africa in 1943 for service with the Twelfth Air Force. However, when they got there, these outfits used Bristol Beaufighter VIF fighters obtained from Britain under Reverse Lend-Lease. The 427th Night Figher Squadron took its P-70s with it when it deployed to Italy, but the squadron exchanged its P-70s for Northrop P-61 Black Widows before it became operational.

The P-70 actually saw some combat action in the Pacific Theatre, although their service there was quite brief. The 6th Night Fighter Squadron began operations in February of 1943 with its P-70s from Henderson Field, Guadalcanal, in an attempt to intercept high-flying Japanese night raiders. It was later supplanted by the 419th Night Fighter Squadron. The 418th and 421st Night Fighter Squadrons flew P-70s operationally in New Guinea for a brief time. The P-70 was not very successful in combat, scoring only two kills during the entire war. The P-70 lacked sufficient performance to intercept Japanese night raiders unless it was extremely fortunate. P-70s were replaced with P-61s just as soon as these aircraft would be made available."

Douglas P-70

Would everyone please look at this ring and tell me if you think the plane on the side is a A20...........Thanks Ron

The Commemorative Air Force In Texas has an A-20,it used to fly,not sure if it still does and a couple were recently recovered overseas to be restored,and there is a real nice one in the USAF Museum in Ohio!

CaptRon said:

Would everyone please look at this ring and tell me if you think the plane on the side is a A20...........Thanks Ron

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Looks like an A-Generic blob. Sorry.

I think its close enough to call it an A-20, the topline of the fuselage is closest.

As I understand it the aircraft that became the A-20 was first ordered by the French, as the DB-7, its makers designation, outstanding orders then taken over by the British who ordered some more and coined the name Boston for the bomber and Havoc for nightfighter conversions and was then ordered by the USAAC/F who adopted the name Havoc for all versions. Would that be right?

comiso90 said:

I always thought the A-20 was UGLY...

Not near the beauty of the A-26 or B-26!

.

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Man, I think the A-20 is a really nice looking prop. aircraft. I only know how it performed by reading what the experts have to say, but I always liked how it looks. JMHO.

The A-20s were well liked by the 5th Air Force and in the book "Flying Buccaneers" by Steve Birdsall it mentions that Genl. Kenney did not want A-26s.
For low altitude work the A-26s "long broad nose, and the placement of the engines in particular, reduced visibility enough to restrict the use of the aircraft at low levels."
Apparently as A-20s in Europe were replaced by A-26s, the A-20s were sent to the Pacific to keep the A-20 groups up to strength.
There was a lot less low-level work over Europe but in the pacific when it came to low level attack and flying between island mountains making attacks while watching for enemy A/C and trying to avoid colliding with your squadron mates the A-20 was preferred.

G'day All,
New on here and thought i'd start on this thread , the A-20 Boston/Havoc is my favorite aircraft, it was well ahead of its time when it came out and was an extreamly versitile aircraft the US /Metal equal to the Mosquito, the A-20 was one of the few a/c that the pilot could turn into a dead engine and fly quite well, a story goes of a senior RAAF Boston pilot who gave a demo to 22 sqn and others in New Guinea, he took off shut down one engine turned into that engine did a full curcuit of the field did an areobatic display started the shut down engine up and landed, I think the Mossie was about the only other twin in WW2 that could do that, 22 Sqn had a race against a 30 sqn Beaufighter after 22 sqn Bostons beat Beaufighters back from some missions, both a/c were prepaired by the maintainers of their sqn's unfortunatley the 22 sqn maintainers gor carried away and removed the ram air intake fron the top of the engine cowl to reduce drag, the engines ran to rich and the Beaufighter beat the Boston by about 50 m on a 50mile curcuit with white smoke poring out of the Boston engines, but they both beat a Kittyhawk which also joined the race by more than a 1/4 mile, after the race the Kittyhawk sqns said why did the Beaufighters and Bostons need escort when they could go faster on the deck than a Kittyhawk or any jap fighter.

will post more on the Boston /Havoc in Australian and 5th AF use over the coming weeks.

"... A-20 was one of the few a/c that the pilot could turn into a dead engine and fly quite well, a story goes of a senior RAAF Boston pilot who gave a demo to 22 sqn and others in New Guinea, he took off shut down one engine turned into that engine did a full curcuit of the field did an areobatic display started the shut down engine up and landed"

Experienced pilots could do that with the B-26 Marauder as well, I believe.

MM

Two comments re. the Boston/Havoc:

First, it has always surprised me that it was never fully developed into a nightfighter. I know the P61 was more advanced (as well as being late) but I think that the Havoc/Boston could have been an effective platform as a stop-gap if more investment had been put into it. From reading 'Beaufighters in the Night' I'm amazed that the US wasn't able to bring forward a nightfighter more quickly and was reduced to using British cast-off Beaufighters (good though they were). The Havoc seemed to have the same potential as the Beaufighter/DO-217/JU-88 model i.e. adapt a medium-bomber to shoot down other bombers.

Second, if you want to see decent film footage of Bostons, then get a copy of the film 'The Way to the Stars' starring John Mills. There are some good close-ups and footage of RAF Bostons - as well as B-17's in the latter half of the film.

Welcome aboard Sid

Sydhuey said:

will post more on the Boston /Havoc in Australian and 5th AF use over the coming weeks.

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Cool, looking forward to it and welcome aboard!

I posted high quality Havoc drawings here,
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/schematics/havoc-drawings-20461.html

G'day michaelmaltby, the B-26 was a bit of a hotrod and could be flown quite well on one, but it had one of the highest wing loadings of the war and I have been told was a handful to fly, I would not like to throw it about on one engine like a Boston/Havoc or Mosquito both of which were suposidly a joy to fly in any role , the B-26 was one of the best medium bombers of the war and was superior to the B-25 in medium level bombing (10-15000'), but not so good at low altitude, in the early days of the pacific war the 22nd bomb group did some incredible things (Desperate!) with there B-26's (in the first 6 months of operations of the 22nd approx 1/3 of the crews were RAAF) (Co-pilots,gunners,navigators)until the US could supply enough crews and the RAAF could get some aircraft, then the B-26 was replaced in the low level role with A-20's and B-25's and in the Bombing role by B-24's.
Unfortunatly not enough is writen about the early days of the pacific war in 1942 in New Guinea when alot of the US sqn's had RAAF crews in them to make up numbers,the problem was the RAAF had combat experianced crews home from the Mid East and Europe but no modern aircraft, the US had some aircraft trickling into Australia but no experianced crews, in fact the co-pilot of the B-26 Linden B Johnson (Future US President) got his Silver Star in was an RAAF Sargent pilot- G.A. McMullin, none of the crew got decorated for the mission but the VIP passenger (and future president) got a Silver Star?????

Anyway back to the A-20's, I have been told that the tactic of turning into the dead engine first happened with a South African Boston in North Africa it had an engine shot out and was returning to base when jumped by a 109 as the German pilot came in for his attack he assumed the Boston would turn into his good engine, it turned into the dead engine and thru off the attack, something that couldn't be done with the Blenheim, Beaufort or Wellington.

A quick overview of the A-20 in the pacific 42-43.

The first A-20's in the South-West Pacific were the 32 DB-7B's diverted from a British order as an interim supply to the NEI Navy until 48 DB-7C's could be manufactured(the DB-7C's eventualy all went to Russia) of these 32 a/c only 6 made it to Java one was assembled and then captured intact at least one of the other 5 was also captured in its case (one of the captured machines was retaken in Japan after the war it still had its original RAF serial on it "AL904"), 22 of these a/c made it to Australia on refugee ships to form the nucleus of Boston operations with the RAAF with 22 Sqn and the last 4 were taken over by the USAAF.

These 22 Bostons were the first of 69 Bostons operaated by the RAAF
22 x DB-7B's A28-1 to A28-22
9 x A-20C's A28-23 to A28-31
9 x A20-A's A28-32 to A28-40(ex 89 Bomb Sqn 3rd Attack Grp)
29 x A-20G's A28-50 to A28-78

The Boston was used by 22 Sqn from Mar/Apr 42 going into action Nov 42 from Port Morsby till there last Boston Mission 07 Dec 44 when replaced by Beaufighters.
The 22 DB-7's were heavily used though 43 and by Oct 43 only 9 of the 22 were left.
9 A-20C's were supplied by the US at about this time, these A-20C's were the only A20C's used in the SouthWest Pacific as the US only used A-20A's then going to A-20G's, these A-20C's were unique in that they are the only A-20's I can find anywere with a unique nose configuration, all the A-20A's and DB-7's had 4 x .50 machineguns mounted thru what was the bomb aimers flat glass panel to supliment the 4 x .303/.30 machine guns in the cheek positions this was the original Pappy Gunn mod program to turn them into staffers the A-20C's had 2 x .50 cheak guns instead of the 4 x .303/.30's and they kept the bomb aimers glass and mounted a strike camera behind the flat glass pane then mounted 3 x .50's high in the nose, these 9 are the only A-20 Boston/Havoc's configured as such I can find in all my reserrch on the A-20 family.These a/c were used heavily losing 5 of the 9 in combat until the US was able to suppliment with A-20G's

The A-20A's were hand me downs from the 89 th bomb sqn when they transitioned onto B-25's in Sep 43 these were the last 9 servicable A-20's in the 5th Airforce until they could get large supplies of brand new A-20G's at the end of 1943, the 89 Bomb Sqn and the whole 3rd Attack Group then converted to the A-20G, these A-20A's were never used on operations by 22 Sqn as they were officialy "war weary"ie: worn out! but used as trainers and test a/c in New Guinea and Australia.

The A-20G's started to come to 22 Sqn in june 44 as by then the Sqn was down under 10 a/c again A28-50 to A28-64 were A-20G-40-DO's with Martin power turrets , A28-65 to A28-68 were A-20G-45-DO's , A28-75 to A28-78 were A-20G-45-DO's as well all thes a/c were used on operations and greatly increased the operational capability of 22 Sqn, A28-69 to A28-74 were A-20G-10-DO's without the martin power turret and were never used on Operations as the older Bostons remaining by this stage and the G-10's were used as trainers and hacks.

Significant Australian Bostons.
A28-8 DU-J "Jessica"the restored Boston at the RAAF Museum Point Cook was the last of the 240 a/c build for France at Douglas Const# 3839 (240 also build by Boeing) taken over by the RAF, RAF serial # AL907 , only 3 away from the machine recovered in Japan after the war (AL904).
A28-77 A-20G-45DO Const # 21898 US serial # 43-22251 Last G model built.
A28-78 was a A-20G-45-DO, NOT a A-20J-20-DO as published in various publications a typo on the RAAF records recorded the US serial# as 43-22140(which was a A-20J) instead of 43-22148, photos have now surfaced to show it as A28-78 DU-R and clearly a A-20G.

Next time more about the early 89 Bomb Sqn A-20's

Sydhuey said:

G'day All,
... the A-20 was one of the few a/c that the pilot could turn into a dead engine and fly quite well...

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The P-61 could do that also and very well. A favorite trick performed by John Meyer... aka the Maestro... when the P-61 was introducted to the pilots in the Pacific.

Ok , before every Tom, Dick and Harry tell me about a/c with good single engine performance I will clarify , before about 1943 ie: the early war years, the A20 and the Mosquito were about the only twin engine aircraft about with EXCEPTIONAL single engine performance many others would get you home on one but thats about all, I remember reading the single engine climb rate for a DH Dragon Rapid was -5ft min, so when on one there was only one direction and that was down, as the war went on and the 2000 hp+ engines became available and started to be fitted to a/c , very good single engine performance started to be the norm, remember the A-20/Boston family was in production in 1939 and stayed in production till end of 1944 ,a/c like the Black Widow (which is also one of my favorites) were not even on the drawing board then.
Even today some twin engine a/c have very average performance and some are exceptional, the 757 is in the exceptional class for single engine performance.

Guess English-speaking people would've called me Tom

You do know that P-61 was beyond drawing-board stage even in 1943?
On a more positive note, A-20/DB-7/Boston/Havoc is one of my favorite planes ever

From early 1942 till late 1943 the only 2 units operating the A-20/Boston they were 89th BSqn 3rd Attack Group and 22 Sqn RAAF (not counting 18 sqn NEI as they only had A-20/Bostons for a couple of weeks) , the 89th brought from the states approx. three dozen A-20A's these a/c were actualy operated by them in the states and I have photos of these a/c in the US still with the red dot in the star and red and white rudder strips all these markings removed before New Guinea at approx the same time the 89th were forming up in Australia and getting organised for New Guinea (Mar-May42) 22 Sqn was re equiping on the 22 DB7-B's intended for the NEI Navy but became refugee a/c in Melbourne Australia, around Aug-Sep 1942 as both sqns had started there moves to New Guinea, it was about the time the Legendary "Pappy Gunn" came up with his now famous straffers, he had planned the mods to B-25's and A-20's since June 42 and by September was into a full modification program the 89th Sqn A-20's were the first to be done with 4x .50 machineguns in thru the bombaimers glass position together with the cheek 4 x .30's then 22sqn got there 19 remaining Bostons similarly modified, though when it became known at RAAF headquarters Melbourne in late 1942 that 22Sqn had modified there Bostons into Straffers RAAF HQ "viewed with concern" that the Bostons had been so modified with out HQ giving the matter "due consideration", investigations failed to discover who had approved the modifications but HQ suspected that either the Sqn Commander or the senior RAAF officer in the area, but sent letters to the Senior RAAF officer in North Qld and the 22 Sqn Commander "in strong terms that they would be held resposible for this breach in orders" , as we all now know Pappy's mods to the A-20 and B-25 were some of the best war winning mods carried out to aircraft in the field in WW2 and latter marks of both a/c incorperated these mods and improved on them direct from the factory.
These approx 40 a/c with both sqn's then flew without replacements thoughout late 42 until by Aug 1943 both sqn's were down to approx 9 a/c each, the decision was made to convert the 89th to B-25 Straffers as adequate supplies of B-25's were available but no A-20's had arrived in theatre since 42, in Sep 1943, 9 x A-20C's became available and went to 22Sqn as replacement a/c, the last 9 remaining ex 89 sqn A-20A's also went to 22 Sqn ,these A-20C's were the only C models to operate in the SW Pacific and were unique in there weapons fit , they had 2 x .50 machineguns in the cheek positions instead of 4 x .30's and kept the bomb aimers glass with a strike camera mounted behind it with 3 x .50 machine guns mounted above the glass, these remaining DB-7B's, A-20C's and A-20A's kept 22 Sqn going until large numbers of A-20G's became available to the RAAF in Jun 44. 22 Sqn was the only A-20 /Boston unit in theatre from Sep43 to Jan 44.
89 th Sqn ran a mix of their few remaining A-20A's and B-25's until Jan 44 when large numbers of A-20G's became available to US units and the whole 3rd Attack Grp converted to A-20G's, their B-25's then went to the 345th Bomb Grp (Air Apache) , it was also at his time (Jan thru Mar 44) that the 312th and 417th Bomb Groups came on line with A-20G's, in a 5 month period from Sep 43 to Feb 44 the New Guinea area went from 2 sqns with approx. 18-24 wornout early A-20/Bostons to 13 Sqns with 120+ A-20G's with the 12 US Sqn's and 20+ DB7-B's, A-20C's and A-20A's with 22 Sqn RAAF.

RAAF Modified A-20C's with 3 x .50's above the still installed bomb aimers glass with strike camera mounted behind and 1 x .50 in each cheek position